M*CARBO Brotherhood

Why we conceal carry

I carry every day and I’ll cross the legal bridge if I have to.
Better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6.

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I agree, as a Navy Corpsman we always carry a US Government ball point pen. And we used to joke that we could kill you and save your life with it. A pen in an airway works 2 ways…

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It’s all about placement… :grinning:

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I’m the same way. I carry my sidearm every day also, including at home.

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I carry everyday, at work, at home, about the town.
And at work or play in my yard. Always carrying.

One thing you may want to check on is if it’s legal,
To wear a mask while carrying a concealed weapon.
Typically here in Florida it is not legal to carry masked.
But that law is supposedly being waived due to covid19.
I’m not 100% sure, but I just don’t wear masks anyways.

I’ll wear one thing that will protect me instead of one that won’t.

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@ValorSolo Good Point. :+1: That’s something that hadn’t occurred to me. It is illegal to enter a casino or a bank wearing a mask that conceals the face, armed or not. I think that apply’s everywhere.

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In reference to the number of rounds fired by this heroic officer, I had an excellent legal class when prepping for my stint in IA. The instructor said when you investigate officer involved shootings there are only 2 bullets that matter. The first bullet defines why you started shooting and the last one defines why you stopped. Everything in between is just statistics.

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So unloading a 30 round magazine into someone will have no influence on a jury?

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Investigation is one thing, trial is another animal completely…and he is speaking specifically in regards to an officer involved shooting investigation.

I think you’ll find jury trials have little if anything to do with actual truth (unfortunately), it’s all about manipulating the technicalities of the law and how good the lawyers are at influencing jurors with their version of the truth. If trials were about the actual law and truth of any particular situation, our legal system would look quite a bit different than it does. There are innocent incarcerated and guilty walking free.

But to @bjackson13’s point as it applies to your 30 round magazine, if the decision to pull the trigger and fire the first shot was found to be justified and the 30th shot was deemed necessary to stop the threat and, in fact, did so, then the other 28 are somewhat irrelevant under the umbrella of an officer involved shooting investigation…unless any of the other 28 were misses and inflicted collateral damage on innocent people…

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“The first bullet defines why you started shooting and the last one defines why you stopped. Everything in between is just statistics.”

I texted that quote a little earlier to three different active LEO friends… let’s just say without too much debate that they all count. All the replies were basically “LOL”.

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I still feel like you’re missing the point, possibly on purpose for the sensational aspect, I do not know.

That said, a couple of items for thought…

  • No idea who your LEO friends are or how good they are at their job, so they can LOL till the cows come home, somewhat irrelevant to the original point if we’re all being honest.

  • Have any of these friends ever been involved in a shooting? Statistics would suggest many officers go their entire career without discharging their firearm other than for qualification.

  • Along those lines, if any of your LEO friends are doing mag dumps or blowing 30 rounds in most shooting situations, it might be suggested they spend a bit more time at the range practicing as they are more a liability than an asset to the department and community they serve…they’re probably missing a lot more than maybe they should be.

  • I feel like the last person to ask in regards to an officer involved shooting investigation would be another officer who wasn’t involved, that’s why other people in other departments handle those investigations. Not exactly an unbiased panel, your LEO friends.

  • Specifically regarding the 30 round magazine in your initial reply, probably a bit unrealistic as, unless they’re on the AR they don’t have 30 rounds to play with in one magazine. And they certainly are not “unloading a 30 round magazine into someone”.

Again the original point is:

  1. Was the first shot justified?

  2. Was the last shot necessary to neutralize the threat and therefore justified?

If the answer is not a clear “Yes” to both of those, there might be some issues with justification of use of force. Police do not have the luxury of just “blasting away”…and for a number of legal, ethical and practical reasons.

In the case of the video posted at the origin of this thread and to my comment regarding someone questioning the number of shots fired, I feel like the shooting was justified as well as the amount of force used.

That said, I’m done with this particular item of discussion as any additional commenting would be superfluous.

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Juries are wildly unpredictable and often decide cases on facts none of the lawyers or Judge regarded as important or relevant. Anyone who says they can predict the outcome of a jury trial is a fool or a liar.

The more important consideration in any shooting is the political aspirations and leanings of the local prosecutor. They have enormous discretion in bringing charges and Grand Juries do whatever they ask. You might ultimately prevail but the mere filing of charges and the cost of responding to them could easily bankrupt you. One reason to consider insurance that will at least pay your legal fees. At $300-1200 per hour legal fees add up fast.

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What @chilipepper said so eloquently.

I was trained at FLETC in a Federal program.
Shot placement and shoot until the threat is no longer a threat is emphasized.
Round count was never considered relevant.
The only time number of rounds came up was a discussion of how many we carried on mission status.

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The original post that started this thread got me to thinking and asking questions. When that officer’s sidearm failed and she performed SLAP, for a spit second, I was horrified. She handled the malfunction brilliantly. But I started wondering if it had been a less proficient officer, would it have ended the same? I called my local sheriff to see if they have an in house armorer and apparently there is a need. I am going to enroll in a Certified Law Enforcement Armorer course. Time for a career change anyway. Keep ya posted!

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Getting paid to play with guns. Brilliant! :grinning:

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yeah, Dave, I thought it was a stroke of genius too! LMAO!!!

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Outstanding!! I wish you the best of luck. :+1:t3:

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Got my Armorer’s course locked down today. I start classes in a couple weeks! Yeah, this is happening!

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Very cool. I’m curious - are you currently LEO? Just asking 'cause I always imagined it as one of those jobs that doesn’t really pay in dollars.

And, you are positioning to have guys with fun toys call on you. Now may be a good time to get your FFL started. That way, when the sales guy with autoseers comes to visit, you won’t have to facepalm when he explains how your business can own one.

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No. I’m not a sworn officer. I already have the FFL paperwork filled out and just need the fingerprint card done once the local PD starts doing them again (thanks COVID!).
Average starting salary for a municipal/county armorer is ~$36k a year. Won’t get rich doing it, but it would certainly be something I’d enjoy.

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