M*CARBO Brotherhood

Why All The Animosity Against Kel Tec?

We have all seen it or heard it. People who say Kel Tec’s are garbage, unreliable, dangerous, etc. They have to be one of the most maligned manufactures in the industry.

Why I wonder?

What do you folks believe is the basis for groundless animosity against Kel Tec products?

Because my experience with Kel Tec has been nothing but positive!


While my sub2000 runs great, i have had a lot of issues with ftf and fte with my pmr30. While its still fun to shoot any gun thats not 100% reliable can have ill effects on what one thinks of a brand. These are the only 2 keltecs i own or have shot. I would definitely buy another sub2000 but wouldn’t even consider another pmr30. I’ve put some money into mine to try and maks run right but i can only get 95% out of it, which definitely isnt acceptable in my book.


I have 5 kel tecs, 3 ksgs and 2 s2ks, they have ran like champs digested all sorts of ammo types and never ever failed.

I guess I got lucky?

Curious though, how much of your problems have been due to ammo? Rimfire has never been known for reliability.


The only time I have had FTF on my PMR is when someone else was reloading the magazines and didn’t understand the procedure. I will say too, that the only ammo I use in it is CCI.


@Partsed the reason I ask is it never fails that someone will admire the light weight, reliability, and accuracy of my KSG or Sub2000 then dismiss it because “its a Kel Tec”.

I saw the same thing in the reviews, yet my gen1 KSG has digested cases of rounds without a single failure.

I think part of the issue with Kel Tecs is that it challenges the status quo and the weapon system they have already invested $$ into.


@Johnksg The only Kel Tec I have any exp. with is my s2k, so I’m limited to how it has performed, but I have never had a FTF or FTE. Certainly quality ammo is a must. And yes, a 400 dollar firearm cant be compared to a 1,400 dollar firearm.
@Partsed I also like cci ammo. I have shot it in several different calibers and never had any problems.


I have had my S2K for two months now, I have run everything from blazer brass, winchester white box, as well as higher quality speer and federal. Almost 2,000 rounds now (yeah…I shoot that much) and not a single issue.

I am impressed with it.

Figure its worth investing the mcarbo parts to improve it just a bit more.:grin:


Absolutly. I have ran blazer brass, winchester white box, american eagle, magtech, remington, armscor, cci, and a couple others through mine. Everything from 115 to 185 grain. I dont run any aluminum or steel case ammo through it, or any of my guns.


My “bump in the night” cabinet beside my bed. I am so confident of the KSG that it is my primary home defense weapon!


i love my P32s… in fact, so much so that i had the Fail Zero folks do the slide and barrel of one - it’s amazing to come back from a 100-round range session and simply wipe down the components:

i called this one my ‘pocket pickle’ - it now sports a matte gray RTK trigger:

i have several thousand rounds through my P32s with no failures - that says something to me…

the cool thing is that you can find used ones for peanuts! the only thing you need is a receiver, as you can buy all the other parts [fairly] inexpensively from Kel-Tec… here’s one that i converted from a Gen 1 to a Gen 2 - the P32s are more than accurate for my needs:

on the Gulf of Mexico


A lot of the frustration with people and Kel-Tec is unique. Kel-Tec is actually a pretty small company and maybe 4 or 5 years ago really suffered from not being able to meet the demand of customers. Kel-Tec KSG and sub2000 were at one point “unicorn” guns your could never find. That upset a lot of people who had to spend almost double the MSRP to own a rifle from Kel-Tec.


@Matt I get that, paid $1400 for that first ksg years ago!

Part of it is their business model, which I personally, admire.

But that said, some of it seems to simply be that people don’t want to admit that their beloved weapon system may be obsolete.:grin:


I have 3 p.m.r.‘s No complaints on Any of them’ I lube all my Rounds before loading Hornady 1 shot case lube, and I use Armscore factory Ammo 40 gr and Ive tried the 45 gr and 50 gr with the same Happy Results,


I took your advice and polished my pmr30 feed ramp pretty good. It can run a whole mag of hornady 45gr


Has anyone else tried the Hornady case lube with the positive results that i have had with it.


Because they earned that reputation, especially back in the 2000s when I first started with them. I had three of their pistols and they were so bad that I swore off Kel-Tec for 12+ years until last year when I found out there was a Gen 2 version of the SUB2000. I’d always liked the concept of the Gen 1 SUB2000, but no way was I going to buy one. It looked terrible and you couldn’t even find one back in the day in my area unless it was an $800-900 used gunshow special. :roll_eyes:


I bought some but I forgot to use it!

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@Wedge but do you still think that holds true today? I look at there last recall, they handled it quickly and with class, even gave out free magazines. Compare that to the absolute nightmare of the Remington SPS 700 recall.

I have never owned their pistols…to happy with walther to switch!


I honestly don’t know. Until late last year, I hadn’t even handled a Kel-Tec for 10+ years and my only experience with a recent one is my one Gen 2 SUB 2000 which, aside from being affected by the recall, has been fantastic. I read that Kel-Tec got their entire manufacturing process ISO certified in the last few years, so I imagine that helped things a lot. My wife works in aerospace manufacturing and getting (and maintaining) ISO certification is a HUGE deal.

Oh, and make that trouble with FOUR Kel-Tec Pistols. Aside from the crappy, unreliable P-32 and a first and second gen P3AT (all long gone), I still have a P-11 that was 100% reliable for a few years. Then it had a FTE. Trying to clear the malfunction caused a double feed. Why? Because the entire freakin’ extractor claw broke clean off and left the fired case in the chamber which, obviously, shut the gun down hard. So much for ever relying on that thing. Kel-Tec sent me an extractor and I fixed it, test fired it and put it in the safe. It hasn’t had a single round through it in over a decade.


The thing is, you shouldn’t have to lube ammo for a firearm to run reliably.