M*CARBO Brotherhood

Watch before buying

I ran across this video on u tube which raises concerns. The video shows damage and wear inside the sub 2000 after 1500 rounds. I am not computer savvy to install vid on forum. It is title Watch before buying sub 2000 by American Defender. I believe it due to poor or no maintenance. If members of this forum take a look at this video and give there input on this issue. Thank you.


Ok videos like this drive nuts! Because it raises a lot of questions in my mind like why would you go 1500 rounds with out cleaning? In that time did the screws work loose? I’ve put 700 through mine in 2 weeks which that deing said is still too long between cleanings but I was having fun! Lol! In that 700 rounds I noticed right about the 400ish rounds some of the screws were working loose! So since I have tightened then I have checked them periodically with out any further issues! It’s hard to tell if that’s what happened in this video but the way think look that’s what I would lean towards!


He discusses issues he found the first time he opened this rifle. This rifle is several years old (gen 1 filmed 6mo ago) and the 1500 round estimate is likely a very poor under estimation. Some of the plastic degradation hints at likely abuse.

But his points are real. It is a cheap, chintzy design - good thing they are priced accordingly.

If I had to pick one gun to defend against a zombie horde 10,000 strong - the Sub would not be my first choice. But if they can be cut into pack of hundreds at a time - the sub’d work well enough. And I chose “defense against zombie horde,” cause … I don’t gotta choose the sub for defense anyway.


@69Goat Thanks for the heads up on retightening screws. Good to know.


I had close to 10k through one SUB, and about 4k through another SUB with very few issues and no catastrophic problems. Yes they’re cheap, but any man-made product can and will fail. At the end of the day, it’s one video of one gun. To me it’s a non-issue. The problem is, people buy a SUB2000 expecting it to be a $3000 wondergun. It’s a range toy imho.


@Dred Thank you for putting up video.


I’m not sure I would call it range toy. It has its purpose of use.



During my study In my amateur gunsmithing certification courses the 1911 feedramp was concentrated on quite a bit. When I had first seen the Kel Tec Sub2K, I had commented on its longevity, too! Chris @ChrisNelson @ was BANG ON when engineering a new design… :+1: Now that I have waited so long to wait for an M-Series rifle, I will have no problems designing the ultimate truck rifle??? :thinking: :triumph: :+1:


carbon is abrasive it also draws moisture, at 3000 rounds on my sub2000GEN1 i have no signs of that sort like he has. but i do swab every time shot and blow out, and i d a teardown and inspect every 1000. my Gen 2 has almost 2000 i upgrade to MCARBO to improve, never had a issue.

now i can take a knife out and beat on it, and break it in a vise, and say its a bad knife, same with guns.I was active duty when you carried a “Johnson scribe” for a Stoner WS and our well Loved M16 was called a Jammin jenny. Ive still got my headspace gauges for a Ma Deuce for replacing the barrel. can still do a redhot on the fly… crap breaks . it always has. usually when its under duress… always will at the worst possible time.
you abuse and beat the crap out of it. expect it to fail. you do decent maintenance and catch things before they fail, you can live to fight another day…


I couldn’t agree more! Also when he mentioned slam fires that told me right there that he has not cleaned that rifle for an extremely long time! Usually that’s due to carbon build up around the firing pin and thats neglect!


Hipoint 10000 rounds lol


:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:


Um no. There was no carbon. The spring lost it’s shape and doubled up in itself. The rifle was cleaned every time I returned from the range. There was zero negligence nor abuse. This rifle destroyed itself in 1500 rounds. I have since purchased a gen two model and will be documenting every shot every ammo brand type and weight. As well as the cleanings. The facts are the example I purchased was a lemon.

Thanks for sharing my vid.

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