M*CARBO Brotherhood

Very Frustrated Working On My Sub2k

Ugh. Just spent hours working on my Sub2k to get the All-In-One Pro kit installed. What a miserable experience. I should have just sent it to MCARBO and had them do it.

Major points of frustration:

  1. The Sub2K was obviously not designed to be worked on/serviced. It’s a lousy design for serviceability.
  2. Exploring the innards of the Sub2K only reinforced my opinion of Kel-Tec that they make very cheap quality parts/firearms.
  3. Loosing that G-D sear spring TWICE! (never did find the MCARBO one, had to re-install the original)
  4. Loosing the G-D safety detent spring (never could find it)
  5. The MCARBO Armorer’s Tool was more hinderance than help getting the safety’s C-clips off. The end of the tool is the correct width, but the teeth of it flair outwards (not inwards as they should). The only grip I could get on the C-clip captured both ends of the clip and no amount of pushing/twisting/f-ing-with-it was going to push that C-clip off. The design of the tool was working against me and the clip. I ended up getting a pair of needle-nose vise-grips and pulling the ring off that way.
  6. The MCARBO trigger spring that I got was NOT bent to spec. It was the RARE exception of comparing the MCARBO parts to the Kel-Tec parts. Most of them it was obvious the MCARBO part was MUCH higher quality. But the spring I got was not bent properly. It’s hard to describe, but it wasn’t “square”. I had a very hard time getting it bent into the proper shape and had to assemble/disassemble the receiver halves several times to get it right. It was very annoying, and after loosing the G-D sear spring twice, I wasn’t in a cheerful mood.
  7. The Sub2k assembly dowel was another frustrating tool. It was just the right diameter to get jammed between the hammer and the walls of the buffer tube/receiver. I literally have wood shavings inside my Sub2K! What a pain in the ass just to get the hammer cocked!
  8. Lastly, while assembling the safety, the detent spring came out inside the receiver. I couldn’t get it out and ended up having to disassemble the receiver AGAIN, only to not find the detent sping inside the Sub2k either. I have no idea where it went. It’s probably partying with that damn sear spring somewhere.

So, I can’t even reassemble my Sub2k right now. No safety installed means you can’t install the bolt (which is probably a good thing for safety reasons, but it would be nice to put it back together as much as possible while I wait to get another detent spring).

Dammit. I wish I’d have just sent the damn thing to MCARBO and had them do the install. And this from a guy who has built from scratch multiple ARs. I’m not a bad DIY-er. I’m good with my hands and with tools. But this Sub2k has me really pissed off right now.

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@Tom2112 sorry you had that experience brother. I luckily never had a problem with the Sub. That’s a big reason I got into the gun. It was so easy to tear down and tinker with. I’ve legit done it over 30x now and could probably do it in my sleep. If I may offer advice, try watching more of Chris videos and cool down. Never easy to do work once you get mad. Come back to it once you have the replacement parts and a more positive attitude :+1:t2:

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Trick I use when dealing with them pesky little flying springs is to loosely wrap the area I’m working on with a towel. Any flying springs are captured by the towel instead of ending up in orbit.

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Don’t fret Brother! If it’s any consolation, I too suffered the ignominious distinction of hiking my ‘Gun in a Baggie’ over to the gunsmith for a perfect reassembly.

I outlined my misery here: Help Reassemble SUB2000

You gotta watch your brothers around here, they’re soooooo good at this stuff and make it look soooooo easy, you may be (or were!) seduced into believing ‘I can do this too…’ NOT!

Good news is once done, it’s forever and perfect! Good luck👍

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key to the sub,
patience.
never try to do it in a hurry, and when you start getting frustrated, walk away. cool down.
breathe deep and go back to it. the sub, hell guns in general, are all about detail. you cant do detail when your revved.
a century CTME had me wound tighter than a spring on a bear trap. would not NOT eject for no mans money( i usually end up with problem children on trade) musta tore it apart in a hurry 1000 times, before I did what i shoulda done the first time and checked the roller clearance… we all get wound tight from time to time.
when a Jesus clip/spring soars off into the ozone layer, when we bobble a magazine swap. when we click the wrong direction on a scope adjustment, or when we grip wrong, and either weak wrist or slide bite.
key to it is. breathe. cool off . and try again.
I gotta remember that next time i sling a 25lb hammer across the shop cause a track hoe cylinder pin has gauled in place… like i said we all have our moments…:crazy_face::rofl::rofl::rofl:

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@Tom2112 First of all welcome to the forum Tom and if anybody can calm you and get you back on track the brothers in this forum can. I’m sure we have all been frustrated at one point or another working on our guns, I know I have. Just remember it is a learning process as with anything, the more you do it the better you will get at it. Hope the next assembly goes smoother.

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Welcome to the Foum. When I installed my upgrades, I also had my Ipad to watch the MCARBO Installation Videos. This worked well for my first installations. Hope all goes well

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@Tom2112

Welcome to the Brotherhood, Tom. My first experience with a MCarbo Trigger Kit for a Mossberg 88 did not go well. I had launched my sear spring (never to be found.) After being frustrated and walking away, I ended up replacing my entire trigger assembly because I knew a gunsmith would be more costly than the assembly itself… I was right and I ended up with an uninstalled kit… I did successfully build (2) 10/22 Customs since and getting ready to build a polymer AR 15 receiver for a .556 pistol… So, you failed and you are mechanically inclined! $hit happens. Don’t let it get you down or make you feel embarrassed. It will happen again and you just have to ‘laugh!’ It will be the best medicine, anyway! All the best.

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Tom I feel your pain and aggravation right now as I type this I’m on break from my upgrade on my 2000 because if I didn’t take this break I was going to throw that damn thing out the back door. Partly my fault because the other day I was doing my upgrade and when I got to the screws I didn’t try them first so I started with the hinge screws with the blue loctite they wouldn’t go all the way in so I tried the rest same results there BUT I forgot to remove the loctite screws until today when I started to put the new right screws in that mcarbo sent me and I can’t get one of them out and right now I’m at a total mind lose without disassembling the whole thing So I can hold the barrelnut :face_with_symbols_over_mouth::exploding_head:

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I think its a good learning experience. Mine wasnt as bad but I did have a spring or 2 go flying. Luckily i heard them land on cardboard and pin pointed where they were or else I probably would of been as frustrated as you. I took pics as I was tearing it down and followed the video closely putting it back together and it went better than i expected. Hope you get yours back together without having to send it off so you can go out & enjoy your newly modified sub2k.

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Welcome to the forum. Sorry to hear about your experience. I did my upgrades one at a time as they came out. Kind if glad i did it that way. Occasional frustration but if you go slow and watch the videos while you work it should go smoothly. Initially I would watch first then star it over and continually pause with each step. Now i can navigate easily if need be. Hope you gather it back together.

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Tom, welcome bro !!!
You have come to the correct place for help.
there are a bunch of resources here and now over 100 years of experience crammed into a single resource on not only the S2K experience but many other firearms from a group of persons that are here not to curse the things we do not know but to help those that want to learn. with that in mind here are few items I suggest take a while to cool down by reading the following threads.

  1. watch the videos on installation
  2. go to the magnifier glass on the upper right corner of the forum home page and do a word search
    “tips and tricks on the S2K”
  3. read this Consolidation of Trigger Group Installation INFO: A suggested reading list for first time S2K trigger installers.
  4. after you are then knowledgable on the simplicity of the S2K have a bunch of fun using IT !
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See how seductive these guys are??? I wasn’t kidding. Why, your head should be so inflated right now, all puffed up with big dreams and ideas, ‘I can do dis got dam thang…!!!’

Now you know how @Turmeric1 got his nickname. :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

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I did mine along side the video @ChrisNelson made. I paused and rewinded when needed and it made it super easy. I’m sorry you had issues and agree the gun is NOT the most serviceable out there, but that is why the video was key in doing it the right way and having little if any issues. @ChrisNelson does tell you what to expect as far as issues you may have. He does it with all the “phenomenal” excitement you’d expect from him. :smile:

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Really? It’s literally screwed together. I’ve had mine fully apart more than once to do a full MCARBO internal upgrade and got it back together correctly the first time, each time. I had a harder time the first time I detail stripped a 1911 frame trying to get that back together. LOL

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And, have Chris’ nice long detail video running right along with the disassembly/reassembly. Do each small section at a time while watching and then pause it in between steps. Don’t try to watch the whole thing at once and think you’ll remember everything.

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@Wedge the firearm that taught me patience, out of all the ones ive rebuilt restored,reclaimed,
was a bull barrel Ruger MKII. I swear that pistol was designed by a sado-masicistical engineer, into receiving and giving pain…
I got it dissassembled in a trade because someone had taken it apart and couldn’t put it back together, and after i got it, 5 days later i was still messing with it.
that pistol gave me religion it did.
finally after some coaching from my LGS, and more than a couple of walk away’s, I understood the “trick”
that was the days before the internet . still got that pistol. the 99% of the time, the journey is worth it :+1:

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Oh, yeah, that one’s a real PITA for sure, too. I always struggle getting mine back together because I shoot my 22/45 so infrequently that I forget the trick and have to look up a video. LOL

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Sorry for your luck. I’ve only field stripped firearms before, never a complete takedown like the all in one upgrade kit. I had no problems when I did it.

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How DID I get my name?

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