The 1% dont want the 99% to have 80% (lowers)

It looks like all resellers are dumping their inventory of 80% lowers and they will be gone forever. I’ve done a couple of them just to say I did and in all honesty I find them to be a pain in the ass vs. simply buying a stripped lower.

Am I reading the new ‘proposed’ rules correctly in that uppers may have to be serialized?

I can say one thing for sure… in the 2022 mid-term election I will be in the voting booth for three seconds. Only long enough to figuratively pull the “all Republicans” lever. I don’t give a s#!t if a pig is on the ballot as long as it’s not a Democrat.

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From my reading of these tyrannical unconstitutional new “laws”. I take it that the build “kits” must be serialized. I dont think its uppers only. I may be wrong. One thing i know for sure is if we keep letting them chip away at our freedoms and rights theres gonna be nothing left to defend or worth defending. But the moment you stand up to defend our constitutional rights as americans they label you as a domestic terrorist. Its allways a loose loose with the libs as long as they get there way. And it saddens me theres so many people that just go with the flow.

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This is so typical of ATF bull shi$.

I also think they are talking about serial numbers for uppers.

The cover up is making GHOST GUN the headlines.

That’s a guess.

Larry

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Isn’t it ironic the same week we get some nut job with a gas mask and smoke in a subway shoot a bunch of people.

Perfect advertisement for the socialist media and the the anti gun peoples.

Larry :rage:

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They have no real interest in addressing gun and other violence which requires diligent prosecution and enhanced sentences. It is all about sound bites for the sheep.

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From the DOJ:

Specifically, the rule requires:

  1. Background Checks: The rule makes clear that background checks must be conducted before kits that contain the parts necessary for someone to readily make a gun are commercially sold. Background checks are an essential tool in preventing convicted felons, domestic abusers, and other prohibited persons from acquiring firearms.
  2. Serial Numbers:
    a. The rule requires that manufacturers of kits that can be readily converted into a fully assembled firearm include a serial number on the firearm frame or receiver in the same manner as any other firearm. This will help ensure that the completed gun can be traced if used in a crime.
    b. If a federally licensed firearms dealer or gunsmith has or takes a firearm without a serial number into inventory, the rule requires them to add a serial number and other markings.

Doesn’t say anything about uppers directly, but may be used/taken out of context if they let individual agents make the call like the new Form 4999. “In the same manner as any other firearm” being the key to not require one on an upper or otherwise non-serialized part.

Source:
https://www.justice.gov/opa/press-release/file/1493431/download

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Just what I said, same bull s#!t from ATF.

ATF loves running around in their GI Joes costumes waving guns around at law abiding citizens so they can look good on TV and get more funds from people like joey.

ATF just wants to increase their data base on Americans with fire arms. Basing it on all guns caus violence.
How can people get any more stupid if they buy into that logic?

I’m done with this ATF rant before I tell you how I really feel and get banned for life…
Larry

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A friend of mine growing up was south korean. His mother had a saying “no bullshee, me dont like bullshee”. Ghost guns are bullshee. Much easier to steal or buy a stolen gun than to create a bullshee gun. This all point to ammo. Cant curb “gun” violence, the next answer is ammo.

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From the White House release:

The final rule will also help turn some ghost guns already in circulation into serialized firearms. Through this rule, the Justice Department is requiring federally licensed dealers and gunsmiths taking any unserialized firearm into inventory to serialize that weapon. For example, if an individual builds a firearm at home and then sells it to a pawn broker or another federally licensed dealer, that dealer must put a serial number on the weapon before selling it to a customer. This requirement will apply regardless of how the firearm was made, meaning it includes ghost guns made from individual parts, kits, or by 3D-printers.

My take
I’m taking it as there will be “pre-ban” possession prior to effective date is ok, post dated sales must be serialized or they must be serialized if possession is taken by a legal FFL holder.

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My understanding‘s always been if you built an 80% gun you had to serialize it to be able to sell it Or even give it to someone else

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Atleast in my state of nc the actual rule is you can not build 80% firearms for purpose of selling unless you have proper ffl licensing. And they must be serialized in that case. But since nc allows face to face sales of long guns. You technically can sale or trade a 80% long gun if its your private firearm that you no longer want or just need thin down collection. Of course its all huge grey areas around everything these days. Ive never sold one that ive built cause with my luck it would be a bad day. Its allways gonna be some kind of new bs “laws” or “regulations” until the people say enough is enough.

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I think I am missing something major here. All my firearms have serial numbers and were sent by and picked up at an FFL… with a Form 4473 and a NICS check. I was told the information was deleted in 30(?) days. If that is not true, then… the feds already have a gun registry.
Requesting the infinite wisdom of the Brotherhood in this matter.

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Yes. The “Transaction Book” of each FFL is a small bit of the database which they can review any time they wish.

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Im one of those who beleave everything we do is on a list somewhere. Every ammo transaction every firearm purchase everything has the ability to target you when the day comes they want to start singling out those who might fight back. Im ready when they are!!

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But I either sold all those firearms to private parties when I needed money or gave them to relatives that have since died. What happens now? I have no records of these transactions. Am I going to jail?

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No, not for Texas. So long as the buying parties were what the feds/state would require (not a minor, drunk/stoned, wants for to perform an immediate crime or a prohibited felon). Last one is interesting because your not required to do a background check either…

I should add that even a gun trace will only lead to the original owner. So, you best have something good to tell anyone who comes asking and you wanna go that route…

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So it has been perfectly legal for me to buy firearms and then give them out as gifts or sell to non-prohibited parties? Even whether I have owned them for 20 years, or just one hour? And the firearm doesn’t even have to have any serial numbers? Or matching serial numbers?

All these questions… guessing it would cost billions of taxpayer dollars to build a database, hire administrative employees, track, hire additional FtATF agents to knock on doors (pretty dangerous and limited career path with a high a HIGH turnover rate I imagine💥), judicially enforce, as well as imprison hundreds of thousands (millions?) of the governments “subjects” that account for more than 500 million firearms and trillions of rounds of ammunition in this country. Such wonderful utopian laws… that would have ZERO effect on crime… because criminals don’t use FFLs or obey laws. Duh.

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Pretty much…but the more of them that turn up “dirty” and can be traced back to you as the original, the more explaining you have until they just clink you as a straw buyer. At least, that’s the way it can easily be interpreted…

Just speaking for TX law I know of…IL is Fvck-all different because of the FOID system at the state level.

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The way the law is today the ATF or any other federal agency can’t legally compile a database of firearm ownership. If a gun is recovered at a crime scene, the government takes the make, model, and serial # to the manufacturer who will point them to the FFL that the gun was shipped to. From there the government can track the firearm to the ORIGINAL owner. Some states require transfer forms if the gun is given or sold to another buyer but most don’t.The FFL is required to maintain records of all sales (form 4473) for 20 years.(that 20 years may be changed now, not sure). If the FFL goes out of business any records that have not reached that 20 year maturity date must be turned over to the government.
The BS about ghost guns is, well, BS. It would be much easier for a criminal to buy or steal from an individual than to go through the trouble of building a ghost gun. They are just manipulating the ignorant sheeple making it look like they are working to reduce crime when in reality they are trying to push for a total gun ban. If they can get enough sheeple to cry for gun control, they may make millions of gun owners instant felons. Their plan may be backfiring on them though. With all the rioters and crime that went unpunished the last few years people that were anti-gun are now the majority of the new gun owners.

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That term… is that because of me not being an FFL? Or who I sell it to? Or a certain timeframe? I would never sell to ANYONE that is federally prohibited from having a firearm.

Not being argumentative… just my f’ucked up way of learning and getting my point across at the same time.

:us:

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