SUB2000...Serious PDW Or Just A Range Toy?


@jwtoys I agree,and while I have had nothing but absolute reliability with S2Ks and MCARBO parts, other posters have not.

I think it just comes down to the “pocket knife scenario” maybe not the best tool for a serious job, but the tool you will have one you when the need arises!

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Where are you buying economical .22 mag? I’m paying more for .22mag than 9


@Matt bimart is actually the best prices right now. (They are a regional chain in Pacific Northwest)


@Matt I use LAX Ammo out of California (Yeah Believe it!) CCI 22WMR MaxiMAG HP for about 16.5 cents/round. CCI #0024 at $8.25/box.


I post without reading the forum rules :slight_smile: please forgive me.

Kit – My wife and I both maintain CARsenals (see pic - hers in 9mm and mine in 40S&W), in which we each maintain a Sub 2K with mounted light, red-dot and tactical sling along with a Glock (34 or 35 in paddle holsters along with mag carrier and 1.75" heavy leather gunbelt) and fifteen (15) loaded ten (10) round mags, plus other necessities inside combo-locked Pelican 1495 ‘laptop’ cases equipped with shoulder straps for easy (and/or inconspicuous) carry. Said CARsenals are secured into our respective vehicles, with 1/2" armored cable and padlocks.

Training – we regularly train at our local range (usually late on Sunday afternoons/early evenings when essentially everyone has gone home), including dismounting both the ‘laptop’ cases and ourselves, from the vehicles, and then deploying the weapons from the cases, kitting up, and then moving to engage multiple targets. Sometimes we have the targets set up at some distance down the range so that we have to move to contact (both with and without cover) and then engage, and other times the targets are close nearby. We try to simulate active shooter situations (always fun employing one or more Bleeding Zombie “terrorist” (note any resemblance to a POS jihadi, is purely unintentional) 3-D targets), when we do this. We have also trained with the same kit, in CQB and Room Clearing classes that we’ve taken from our instructors (retired SoCal PD training and canine officers). The Sub 2K’s have never failed to function and have never failed to deliver lead on target. For civilian use as a rapid response, easy-to-transport SHTF/Need to Arm/Fight Right Now weapon, the Sub 2K seems to work great. On the other hand, given major civilian unrest (e.g., say on Day 3 and thereafter in SoCal, following a Richter 8 earthquake and everyone who has failed to adequately prepare starts running our of food, water and wants to ‘permanently borrow’ our supplies, etc.), and assuming that we’re at home when the SHTF, then the Sigs, Benelli’s and SCAR’s will make their pre-scheduled appearances and our adherence to the 2nd Amendment will be amply vindicated.

However, that’s not to state that the Sub 2K should be presumed to replace the M4 or the M1014, 870, etc., for the roles those weapons are designed to fulfill. Each has it place in self-defense and in support of the Constitution (… enemies foreign and domestic … ) and successful employment is dependent upon the situation and properly training-in-preparation, therefore.

Molon Labe !!!


@poorsanders it is a shame what California has become! I was born in Redding, my family worked the timber industry from Anderson to Mount Shasta. My memories of Northern California, riding around on my bike or horse with a .22 rifle is so different than what you see today.

It really used to be the “Golden State”!


Roger that !!!

Molon Labe !!!


When we talk about places or people and ethnic groups on the forum let’s try to be civil please thank you.


I had a Thompson machine gun in Nam. It blew oil in my face every time I pulled the trigger. Traded it for a grease Gun. Real sorry the G G didn’t come home with me


PFCs are the reason they print “THIS SIDE TOWARD ENEMY” on a Claymore.


My son was 2/4, spent a year at Hansen but all of his off duty time was at Kadena.

  1. AF E clubs are better than Marine O clubs.
  2. AF E clubs had amazing food and toys.
  3. AF women were better looking than MC women.
  4. It pissed off the AF guys when the good looking women left with the Marines. And they never did anything about it. The last part pissed off my son.

Box of 200 rounds of 22WMR is $39.97 when I was there on Thursday. 500 rounds of UMC 115 grain 9mm was $89.97
I was going to buy both, but do you think I could find anyone around to get them to pull it off the shelf for me?? No, so I said screw it and walked out the door.


$73.99 a 500 brick ? Ammo Supply Wharehouse


@Partsed I get great service at the gun counter in bimart, everyone there is a shooter, even the store manager is a fellow RSO. I guess it depends upon the store?


I just thought I would add this to the thread…

I have started shooting PCC using an S2K, and have done quite well against all of the higher end, custom AR builds.

The S2K gives me an advantage in weight, overall length, and low recoil that lets me maneuver around barricades and swing through faster in acquiring targets.

I find loading the magazine in the pistol grip to be quite natural and a big advantage on night shoots especially!

In the last 2 matches I have placed 6th and 4th (which is a major improvement for me!)

Time will tell if the “plastic fantastic” S2K can keep up with the high round counts and abuse multiguns get.


LOL - tear it up @Johnksg! The members here with highly modified Sub2k’s putting a lot of rounds down range are doing valuable research for all of us :clap: please continue to keep us informed with you and your students experience’s here…


@TriggerHappy thank you sir!

I kinda retired from the sport awhile ago and moved into the admin side…being an RSO, building barricades, and designing courses.

The PCC has brought me back! It allows me to compete without a ton of gear, no heavy “batman utility belts” festooned with expensive mag and shell holders. (I just put a spare “happy stick” in my back pocket and go!)

So far the S2K has been up to the task…I have been modifying one, while keeping another “stock” to use as a comparison piece and backup.


The beauty of the S2K is it is compact, light, and agile and the Glock version with 33 rd. “happy sticks” (I have about 20 lol) makes it potentially very effective. I am also very interested in what the most effective 9mm rd. would be out of the longer barrel and higher pressure/FPS for an active shooter scenario at longer distances up against light body armor possibly.

I started this thread way back…


@TriggerHappy I read that thread and posted a reply but I think it got buried in the comments.

I think the ideal ammo for a PCC is standard 115gr FMJ by a quality manufacturers such as Speer or Federal.

While not as effective in the shorter pistol barrels that round really performs well out of a 16" carbine. The different hollow points and bullet weights that you see today were designed to operate in standard 4 -5" barrel lengths and may not function as designed in the carbine.


Now that you mention it I remember that post - I should take some time and re-read that thread - somebody did post some pretty technical specs. I agree, I think FMJ makes more sense with the higher velocity. How about a steel core green tip 9mm LOL…

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