SUB2000...Serious PDW Or Just A Range Toy?


One of my students and myself were having this discussion about if the Sub2000 qualified as a serious personal defense weapon (PDW) or is it just a neat range toy?

I am interested in the forum’s opinion on this subject.

What the Sub2000 could have been?

@Johnksg I think it is more of a range toy . That being said, any thing that spits lead down range could be considered PDW, for close range 25 to 50 yards the S2K would probably work. I have never had any problem with mine, but still look at it as more of a toy.


@godallmighty I felt the same way at first, then I realized that in the past two months I have taken out a S2K with 6-8 G17 “happy sticks” for my students and myself. That is about 3,000 rounds of everything from blazer brass, winchester white box, federal, speer, and a few others tossed in without a single FTE or FTF. And that is in the bone stock un-modified S2K!

My competition version with mcarbo parts has easily twice as much rounds through it.

So the reliability is there…at least for me.

It also fits a tactical role. I keep mine in a briefcase in my truck or at the school as part of my “ALICE” first responder kit. Simply because it is better than a pistol and I cannot keep such a “low profile” with any of my other weapons.

The S2K is seriously growing on me in this regard. But I am not sure yet I would recommend it due to lack of LE/military use and history.


Give the S2K to any US grunts and they will break it inside of a minute in actual combat. The weapon was not designed to fit a full military role. It does, however, fit a PDW role. With the craziness going on now in the nation one must consider what is a good weapon for PDW. The S2K is compact, light, accurate, and reaches further than pistols or wheelguns. Use a pistol to get a shotgun, use the shotgun to get a real gun… a rifle.


@russ I was a marine, a PFC can break anything! Lol

When we first got hmmvs they told us they were “impossible to roll over” it took less than two weeks for the first one to be flipped!

That said…I do believe that milspec is somewhat over-rated and relied upon in the firearms world.


For me a “real gun” is a customized M1A socom16, or a Savage FCP-HS, but that said I cannot incorporate either of those into civilian, low profile use.

On security details we used the MP5 as well as the SP version. Neither was without faults or problems. I think I would have prefered a S2K over each if I had that option back then.


@Johnksg I was actually thinking of Marines when I wrote that. They fight hard and their gear has to be up to the wear and tear.


@Johnksg Excellent choice in weapons! We have to remember that us retirees are not in the boonies, or indian country anymore. We are in the great PX and can’t run around the streets with a full combat loadout. Soooo, what do we do to provide protection when SHTF??


@russ that was my thought/realization when I was asked that question last week.

I will admit to my biases, but I also realized that I am already employing the S2K in a PDW role. Sure, if there was an active shooter at school I will probably wish for my M1A, but it is sitting in my gunsafe. I carry a Walther PPQ as my normal ccw but I also have the S2K in the briefcase. Which would I use? The S2K of course!


But therein lies the dilemma, keltec made the S2K to be under a certain price point…in other words, cheap!

Thats not all bad, Glocks are pretty damn cheap as are AK47s but both are reliable and battle proven.

The S2K may be as reliable, better with mcarbo parts and upgrades but it is NOT proven.


We all let our biases color our choices; that’s what is great about our nation. Imagine if everyone liked the same thing. Does Hillary Clinton come to mind? The key is “what is the situation”. Your correct, what good is the weapon I won’t if it is unavailable.


Yup! You have stated the key problem, “not proven”.


What you have when you need it is better than what you have at home. Lol

We talked a bit about the Ruger PC9, but other than that I cannot think of another non SBR that can fill that role in any “typical” civilian use scenario.

On embassy duty we had to dress in civilian attire and conceal or weapons and gear. Not much out there in the civilian market outside a pistol I can do that with!


I just want to jump back in, the question was not if it is a PDW but

Anything can and should be used as a weapon, just somethings are more “serious” than others.


@russ yep, you hit the nail on the head! It is NOT proven and nobody wants to the first to jump in. I work with local PD and SROs and they all have ARs…locked safely away in their vehicles!

We have talked about the S2K to fill a low profile role beyond a pistol…I am unsure, but what other option is out there?


@godallmighty like a good baseball bat?:grinning:




I guess what I am really asking in this thread is what are the limitations/shortcomings of the S2K that I have not yet discovered? Is any one experiencing chronic failures or design flaws that would rule this weapon out for the PDW role?


@godallmighty I like your thinking brother!


My wife’s “salmon club” that I made for her! :grin: