M*CARBO Brotherhood

Red Dot Sight For Kel Tec SUB2000 Gen 2


@Wedge huh? …red dots? Thats about what @Turmeric1 is seeing right now! Besides this is more fun and informational!


Damn squid spoil sport! Hope some marines draw penisis all over your whirlybird!:blush:


Just “CHEAP THRILLS”. OOOPS Mr. MOD i guess @boomchucker or @Phoenix would like that


Penisis? It that some type of VD? LOL

Seriously, the banter is fun and Lord knows I do my part there but sometimes it can run on a bit long. Not saying that’s the case here, but I do like reading about the red dot/optic stuff. :+1:


What about red dots on Penisisis? I figure all you military guys heard plenty of lectures about that!

Sorry Wedge. Couldn’t resist. And I wasn’t even part of the original hijack.

I’ll behave now.


@Wedge I believe this is from the bible…somewhere, "for the Lord sayeth unto you…give a marine a box of crayons and he will eat for a day, give him a sharpie and he will be entertained for a life time, give him a rifle and…holy f*ck what the hell are you thinking!?"

now back to our regularly scheduled programming…I am off to my vets coffee.


@JoeFridaySays back from coffee…what is a penisisisisis?

@Wedge I thought I liked the 60moa circle on the holosun, but have went back to the 2moa dot setting…just curious what setting do you use?

(See how I covered there? …and the squids think all of us marines are knuckle dragging mouth breathers!)


I use it with everything turned on. Full reticle with the center green dot.


@Wedge I tried it, ran with it a few times in practice…thought I liked it. But when ran the actual shoot it threw me off of my game, part of the reason was we had a lot of 4" plates. I think biggest reason might have been " trying to teach an old dog new tricks. "

Just wondering what the experts were running? Gonna stick with the holosun for awhile though, I can see why you guys like it!


Gotta wonder why I am responding; I’m not an expert - I just breath (nose and mouth). And I don’t run the fancy Holosun, but my low grade Holosun shares the same reticle. I run dot plus 65MOA circle. I just find the dot faster with the circle. My first dot sight was EOTech, so I suppose I’m going with what I know. But, I gifted the only pure dot sight I had (Lucid) to one of my brothers that won an AR in a raffle - that dot was a shy sumaB and I didn’t like hide and seek.


@Dred you have probably forgot more than I know! I ran same set up…but on small plates the circle just threw me off. Part of it is I am used to aimpoints and vortex, never ran the circle dot combo before.

But a 2moa dot seems a bit faster? I would think it is reflex to want to center that circle?


@Turmeric1 this is a very excellent and useful post. Thank you. Please advise which UTG riser that is. I have found a couple of UTG risers. All say .5 inch. But I am not finding with a wing nut. Only Allen wrench or knurled cap screws.
Also to understand correctly the UTG is actually slightly shorter than the Aimshot as to where the edge of the rail is. Because I need my optic about 1mm shorter than the riser I currently use to properly co-witness with the irons.


I can start tracking using the circle and just follow through until the dot is where I want to punch my hole. So yes, sorta on the circle. I do eventually get to where the circle helps with holdovers and Kentucky windage. And, I’ve never run a dot larger than 2MOA so I don’t have a basis for dot size effects.


@Dred I just gotta retrain…build those new reflexes and muscle memory! :+1:


As I understand it, UTG mounts come in only three lengths:

“UTG riser mounts are available in 3 of the most commonly sought out saddle height profiles: 0.5”, 0.83”, and 1”. And, they come in 3 different optic mounting lengths, including 2 slots, 3 slots and 13 slots.” (that may not be accurate though as I think I have seen a five slot).

EDIT: I have now confirmed that despite its product literature, UTG does indeed make a 5 slot mount. See this link:

The 2 slot and 3 slot versions can be purchased in a 0.5” height with a wing nut type fastener like you describe (see links below). @Turmeric1 will need to confirm the particular mount he measured.



UTG #RS05S3 try ebay or your favorite store saw one on ebay $8.36


I think Goblin has identified a major part of the variance but not all of it. Manufacturers like UTG and Monstrum are not making surgical tools and they aren’t making $100 mounts either. So their definitions of acceptable tolerances are a good deal more lax than those of Aimpoint for example and they are not going to discard a $20,000 production run just because it is 1/16" out of spec while Aimpoint almost definitely would. And they are going to use cheaper production practices that permit more deviation from shrinkage and the like.

But I think some of it still comes down to differences in master molds where the mounts are cast, different lathe and mill settings where they are machined, how many beers the lathe operator had the night before, etc.

Whatever the cause, we will rarely know with certainty that a mount is “right” until it and the optic are on the firearm.


@Dred, Thanks for the turn on here is how the 10/22 shot t the range this afternoon.
No adjustments required!!!

SeeAll sights.


Seems the SeeAll agrees with you. If that’s 25 yards - no seem’n 'bout that target. You are shoot’n minute of squirrel at 2 shots a second.

I have been think’n on homes for my Great SeeAll Buyin 2018 spoils. I have a Marlin 795 that’s cut back to 16" in a bullpup stock that’s presently running Tech Sights. It is slated to be rehomed into a gutted Tavor Airsoft Stock. The SeeAll Homing Project has renewed my interest in the Tavor project and I think I know how to finish. All that is to say - your results make me want to play. And I am on my way downstairs to get the Tavor stock out of the closet to put it where I have to look at it :+1:.

Got the delta reticle on the Subby.
Got the 20% sale delta going back on the shotgun.
Got homes to find for the pair of crosshair blems. At least one will land on a lever - possibly both.
So, I might need to think about another rail sight - least the 22 won’t need tritium 'cause no hunting or defense are on its menu.


Thank you guys. This is the best on-line community hands down. Nay. A Brotherhood.


@Dred I WANT TO SEE THE TAVOR HOME when you get it built !
I am thinking of getting A tritium for my real Tavor.

What I found today is that the further (within limits) the SeeAll is placed on the rail the larger the DELTA becomes. Experiment with it !