M*CARBO Brotherhood

Red Dot Sight For Kel Tec SUB2000 Gen 2


Good planning, I like it !


Wasn’t you who evaluated the reasons why there were the discrepancies
It was @goblin thst did the evaluation in this thread above.


It was @Dred who clued you in and even gave you an Amazon link. I saw your post and assumed you meant that you were able to switch from the existing half inch mount to the Monstrum and stayed zeroed. I also assumed that it solved the cant problem and therefore presumably the pushing to the left, but that was not actually stated in the post.
@GOBLIN actually keyed in on the main reasons for discrepancies and I just added to that.


I initially mounted the SeeAll to the Rail on the 10/22 and ZEROed it. I was too low for comfort so I mounted it to an AmShot that is when it canted on that riser.(the pictures above)
Then Goblin talked about the different ways of manufacture and @Dred turned me on to Monstrum. on Amazon
The order of thing might be wrong but those involoved were, I think ( well at least I try to) properly credited.


THe end result I am pleased (so far ) with the results of the SeeAll sight and am thinking of putting one on the Tavor. To complement the Primary ACSS Scope and the AMDS dot.


He has more stock in SeeAll than me.
I read the reviews on SeeAll’s site and came away with the feeling that peolple were expecting a device that they were comparing it to way much more expensive Snob appeal hardware.
THe sight , Ifeel is durable enough to be a long term item. Even Trigicon sigth can get scratched. Both have a lifetime warranty?
I have now mounted the same sight on 4 different items to get a feel for their ease of use and returned it ti the 10/22 and it has remained true to its ablility to go to zero.
The lesson i have learned in this discussion is that I now am more aware of something I never considered !
As always I remain ignorant but trainable


Absolutely no offence taken here !!! I was in an attic for 7 hours today on my belly trying to find out whysome water that was destroying a ceiling in a 3 million dollar home. This is mid Ohio and it WAS ICE DAMMING. in November !

How damned cornfused feeling do you think I am !!!
I do not think enough beer can help?
HELL I got an upper body work out and got paid for it.

Now I have an extra Dot to put on something


The older I get the less cold tolerance I have. I’m freezing down here in Kentucky. I can’t imagine crawling around in a cold attic.

Like you it seems to me a lot of the criticism of the sight is based on unrealistic expectations. It looks and feels pretty rugged to me. Yes, I can’t see under the reticle, but I can’t see under the iron sights on any of my firearms either. There’s a freaking gun in the way!!!


Do you shoot with 1 or 2 eyes ?


Throw it away !!! I will give you a good address to aim at !


Iron sights one; red dots two. I will use two with the See All.


I am trying to learn how to use 2 on open sights. But I keep getting CORNFUSED witch is right and witch one left.
Thats why i love dots. but the SeeAll IMO is a dot. you just need to relay on the fact that you need to practice keeping you head on straight. Well at least LEVEL!


I will never get my head on STRAIGHT I would probably loose it if that happened.
Now LEVEL that is another story! I try to know when I am a bubble OFF or not!


Regarding the Monstrums … stictly dumb luck that it works with the seeall. But I looked at a lt of options before deciding on several cheap Monstrums so I get a rifle set up. I need to state clearly that the Monstrum is, IMO, a crap mount. When you look at a Picatinny mount you should flip it over and examine the crossbrace. The crossbrace on a proper Pic mount FILLS the corresponding space on the rail. What we generaly find is a skinny guage rod which 1. is adequate to apply tension to the sides of the rail, 2. is magically small enough to fit into a weaver rail gap, and 3. is entirely inadequate at performing its primary function which is securely and positively fix the location on the breech to muzzle axis.

So, the Monstrum is a crap riser, but its price is favorable and we can practice the old push it towards the muzzle while tightening it down to limit movement from recoil. The 1913 spec calls for a lot more security than recoil - a proper mount will take a blw to the optic without flinching.

I think part of the elevated price on proper mounts covers support staff fixing things for folks upset that the high dollar pic mount they bought won’t fit on a weaver rail.


@Dred Were any of your SeeAlls canted when you put them on the mounts? If so, do you think it was the sight or the mount?


who sells SeeAll’s anyway, cant get it to come up on a search…



I’m still slow moving. I’ve only mounted to first that I bought this summer. The rest will get homed as the firearms get out and get shot. So, I have not experienced a problem with the SeeAll mount. But in the interest of consistency … it’s a crap mount. It’s got a compromise crossbrace instead of a Picatinny cossbrace. But, it’s designed it to attach to Pic rails and Weaver rails, so … The rant that belongs here is in my previous post instead…

I predict that SeeAll will eventually sell the sights and the mounts seperately. It’s really the only effective way to please folks AND get it right. There is a reason Aimpoint has a known, standardized bolt pattern for attaching appropriate mounts.


Home Range Report

Well, we made it to the farm and set up the range, so here is the promised report – with PICTURES for @Turmeric1 . Surprisingly, the range set up smoothly and matched the plans as shown by the first photo below. The groove routed to prevent tipping of the two single post setups on each side also worked. The second photo shows the way that was handled and how the groove straddles the T-Post to prevent the weight of the single unbalanced steel from tipping the 2x4 to one side. My son really liked the way the multi-post/multi-target setup allowed transitions and similar non-static shooting.

Unfortunately, I cannot show photos of the steel with all of the paint shot off as requested by @Turmeric1 for two reasons. First, we were zeroing a couple of sights including the SeeAll, so a lot of the shooting was at paper targets. Second, my son kept repainting the steel with white spray paint when I wasn’t looking. The additional photos below will have to do. All in all, we were thrilled with the range set up. When we were finished, we unsnapped the steel targets, slid the crosspieces up off the T-Posts and stored everything in the barn for the next time, leaving only the four T-Posts standing in the field – we painted those posts bright orange to make sure the guy mowing the field doesn’t miss them.

I will report on the SeeAll in a separate post later.






@JoeFridaySays Thanks for the report and pictures. Looks like a great rig. :+1: