M*CARBO Brotherhood

R51 Functioning Update

I get questions about this pistol from time to time, so here’s the “up to the minute” report.

Howard

9 Likes

I see these pop up occationally on various gun deals sites for 200 or less, its kinda sad how big a failure they were

4 Likes

It really is! I think the downfall is the magazine. In most other respects it’s a nice “carryable” little pistol. Unfortunately, the mags just can’t seem to reliably feed cartridges into the chamber. At this point I can’t decide if I want to keep the thing as a curio (I have plenty of others to carry), or if I want to sell/trade it for something else.

Howard

4 Likes

Would be interesting to play arround with springs and floorplates to see if you can get one running.

Been kinda tempted to acquire one nect time they show up on sale for something rediculous and see what i can do with modified mags

4 Likes

Those are the kind of things I did before I sent it back the first time.

Howard

3 Likes

@hrfunk what type spring does the magazine use Howard? seems like i tweaked one a while back, going to have to check my book. I like the size and dimension, right price i would pick up one as well and chase the snakes out of it…

1 Like

This video will give you a close-up look at the magazine springs.

Howard

3 Likes

Whats the magazine geometry look like relitive to other single stack pistols?

1 Like

I was gonna say drop out 2 rounds and take pressure off the spring, but when it dropped one up in the middle, sorta killed that theory. Ive never seen one push a round back down and wedge it down. ever. not even on the Makarov. either there is a burr somewhere on the breech block or on the sliding cam arrangement, or the feed lips are to shallow… are there any signs of drag on the ejected cases? could need to polish chamber and ramp… that would be my 2c

1 Like

think its spring rate/length and follower design (esp anti tilt) personally, but then again never handled a r51…

3 Likes

didn’t Remington bring it back out in `18 right before they filed bankruptcy? trying to remember

1 Like

It’s a pretty conventional single-stack magazine. When they re-worked/re-issued the R51 in 2016, they made a change to the follower. There is now a small “ramp” at the forward center of it.

Howard

2 Likes

No, the extraction and ejection seem to occur when/as they should. The problems always seem to crop up in the feeding and chambering operations. This is what always leads me back to the magazine as the culprit for the issues.

Howard

2 Likes

The R51 was originally released to much fanfare in 2014. Then, pretty spectacularly, they were all recalled in the fall of that year due to the numerous problems that were occurring with them. Remington took two years to redesign the pistol (purportedly, a large portion of that time was used to move the pistol manufacturing operation from one location to another). Then, the revised R51 was released in 2016. I waited another 2 years before I bought the one in the video. I was hoping by that point, Remington had worked the bugs out of the design. Unfortunately, they had not. It seems to me that they emerged from bankruptcy in 2017 or 2018, but my memory is a bit fuzzy there.

Howard

2 Likes

@hrfunk I will try to put this in a manner that makes sense. I have a Star model 31P .40 cal as my in hand example.
As you mentioned H.R., when pushing and locking in a full mag, the top round pushes against the bottom of the slide assembly. If you now chamber a round into battery, the upward pressure of the top round in a full mag is relieved.
If you now add a round to full mag capacity, again that upward pressure of the top round on the bottom of the slide , while in battery and then fired, the friction/timing/position? of first cycling round is fouled and the culprit.
My reasoning is this: My star had extraction issues due to a worn extractor. But when loaded with chambered round + full mag (unrelieved into battery, top round), the first round extraction issue became 100% fail.

It was directly influenced by the full mag in my unique case, just the same, as it is the Rems issue somewhere. imho Hope that makes some sense…?? I know it’s a bit of apples and oranges, but still.

And mine also shoots .40 Rem Golden Sabres very nice and smooth. fwiw.

@GOBLIN You were also right, in the drop a couple rounds in the mag and see what happens method. :ok_hand: :ok_hand: Mine would extract and cycle, on occasion , doing that. Not a 100% failure.

.

1 Like

Thank you! Your description is precisely what I thought was going on before I sent the pistol back to Remington the last time. While they had it, they relieved/polished a projection on the bottom of the locking block. I noted when it returned it was much easier to hand-cycle the top round from the magazine into the chamber. So it would seem at least some of the friction was relieved. At this point, I don’t think the friction is part of the issue. My best guess is that the magazine tube and feed lips are not holding the cartridge in the proper position for reliable feeding into the chamber. I’m not sure if the problem is with the tube dimensions, the feed lip angle, the follower, the spring, or a combination of all of them. That’s why I think the magazine needs a complete re-design.

Howard

2 Likes

@hrfunk
I would agree. I think the entire/correct? control, placement, and position of the cartridge isn’t. Any of those things, LOL!!
It just has the very same feel as my experience. (Although my problem was overcome by refiling/repairing the tooth of the extractor.)

And a PS: 2 things.

  1. When hand cycling the first round from a full mag on mine, it would sometimes fail to slide up the feed ramp and stick. When chambered from the “locked back” slide position however, the slide release forward is substantial. It doesn’t slow down for a fussy round and you don’t want to be in its way.

And 2. I have Never seen a round nose dive like the one did on you. WOW!

2 Likes

Yes, this pistol can be rather impressive in its efforts to malfunction!

Howard

2 Likes

It’s one of those things that are very frustrating, that can be justly named a Gremlin. I hate that!!. LOL It’s something that can be overcome, scoring a save for the gun, and maybe becoming better at the craft.

Or to be honest in my case, it’s as much a mission of “Why, I’m not going to be beaten by that little snot nose agitater” and “It’s On”
Hahahahaha.

2 Likes

@hrfunk the nosedive fascinated me read what they say here on the taper cartridge nosedive here HR, or have you seen this before?https://www.shootingtimes.com/editorial/9mm-automatic-better-9mm-cartridge/99151

2 Likes