M*CARBO Brotherhood

PDW (Personal Defense Weapon) Debate

Due to the recent-ish decision from BATF on the ability to shoulder an arm brace, is the deployability of something like the B&T APC9 superior to that of our beloved Sub2k?

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Until they over rule it…maybe

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Seems to me you have the following:

A “pistol” which can have a round chambered and can be functional with or without the “arm brace” extended. (you can also technically have this “pistol” on your person)

Vs.

A carbine in which you must unfold and charge in order to be functional. (cannot be carried on person in most situations)

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The advantage of the Sub2k for me is still shared mags with the handgun I’ve trained most with.

That said, I have a .300BLK AR pistol which I’m meaning to put a folding adapter on. That gives me a compact rifle caliber weapon I can legally conceal.

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In my opinion, the S2K has a couple advantages. It uses the same magazines as my sidearm and has a longer sight radius than the B&T APC9.making it easier to take longer accurate shots. Another advantage for the S2K is ballistics. The longer barrel equates to more velocity and energy from the same cartridge. True, it may be a little slower to deploy than the B&T, but that’s why I carry a sidearm. The B&T fills the middle ground nicely, but doesn’t serve very well as a pistol or a PCC in my opinion. The B&T would be an excellent choice for a house clearing op though.

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dang hell of a pricetag on the B&T, if i was in the market for another MP (machine pistol style) you could do it a lil more cost effective with a CZ scorpion EVO -3 S-1 lot of bang for the buck at list of $899. kit assembly places, tend to make me a lil wary, ive got a habit of picking up problem children assembled rifles, got a G3 clone Century that i finessed the bugs out of, some of those places are good, some are bad, and some have no attention to detail…JM2C

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this all comes about through seeking a backpack gun.I really thought I had found it in the Sub2k, however it seems my mind is wandering away from it as I see the market producing better pistol cal carbines. I’m looking at the CMMG banshee with the radial delayed blowback bolt, perfect to suppress, whereas the Sub2k not so much. Don’t take it wrong (Chris) I love my tricked Sub2k, as it goes everywhere my backpack goes. And I do mean everywhere.

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I carry a PMR-30 as my backpack gun and I live in Colorado where we have actual dangerous game brown Bears and Mountain lions. To be 100 honest. You are better with a pistol for backpacking. It’s readily available on the chest or hip and doesn’t require you to drop your pack to get to it. Movement like taking off your pack might only provoke an attack.

I have actual experience to back up my view when I tell ya this. A .22WMR with 30 round capacity on your hip will do you more service than a 9mm or .300BO strapped to your pack I should know I have both

Now in saying that might I recommend the solo.300 it’s like having a Thompson Center pistol with the benefit of a straight pull bolt and magazine with 10 to 30 rounds in it. If you were to forgo an aluminium lower for polymer you would have a very light weight pistol that is more than appropriate for a camp firearm.

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Any one relying on a 9 mm as protection for bears ( Griz or black) is just kidding themselves. Bears run about 30 MPH, how fast can you run & if you do your just triggering the prey instinct ! Their head is designed to absorb the punishment of other bear swatting them in the head fighting. I feel even a .357 for bears in inadequate, 44 mag & Up with cast core bullets ! Carrying your weapon in your back pack is a false sense of protection, you don’t have time. Be aware bears will make bluff charges & if you shoot the DNR or the Feds do investigate every one for an illegal shoot.There will be many opinions I’m sure, but this one is mine. Unless you’ve never been bent over & quartering an elk or deer in the mountains take my word for it ! I too have worked the Rockies in WY.

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How about an AR9 suppressed with a Fostech binary trigger?

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Now that’s interesting. I’ve got a .300blk AR but with a suppressor on the way, a bolt action “pistol” would be pretty sweet. A folding brace and short OAL would be very handy.

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I like the way you think. I’ve built two of these. One in 300, other one is 9x39.
Shoot subs in both and plan to suppress. You can check em out in the AR thread.
They are still works in progress and constantly changing. But both run great.

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The 9mm is so you can shoot yourself just before the bear kills and eats you.

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Your absolutely correct ! I always thought if you get attacked with your :rofl: pea shooter you should stick the firearm in his mouth up to your elbow & pull the trigger. That way you might hit something vital.

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For bears, a .22 caliber is more than adequate. Just shoot your companion in the knee before you start running.

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@JoeFridaySays As funny and clever as that is I feel like the bear would run right by the injured person laying on the ground and give chase to the Selfish SOB who is running.

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@Flogrown Possibly but I think the blood and cursing would override the desire to chase.

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Either way I can’t bear the thought of such a grizzly situation

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You might just have a bluff charge, they do that sometime. If they do you should just stand there to grin & bear it ! :laughing:

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Bears are wonderful creatures that deserve respect & room, it’s their house not yours.

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