Hey all, just looking for some input on those who have used the Red Lion frail system and the M*CARBO optic mount. Pros and cons of each system? With an optic, I’m going to try and have it lower 1/3 co-witness with the iron sites.
First main difference is speed of deployment. IMO, if rifle is stored folded and intended for defensive use … Red Lion is too slow; MCARBO is just right.
Red Lion Pros: build quality is unmatched; it definitely classes up feel and appearance
Red Lion Cons: slots are too narrow to accept mlock so picatinny rails required for accessory mounting; deployment from folded configuration adds seconds; heavy in comparison to alternatives (plus 'bout a pound)
MCARBO Pros: excellent build quality; fastest solution that retains precision versus offset mount; great company (RL may be as well) which stands behind their products
MCARBO Cons: doubles the folded dimension width
Disclosure: I’m running a home built solution. I traded off the Red Lion 'cause it wasn’t fast enough, and I replaced my poly forend with the Kel Tec Aluminum that doesn’t accomodate the MCARBO mount. My sub is highly modified, but I’d run the MCARBO mount if I needed to meet my needs with the factory poly furniture. @Goblin proved the MCARBO can be adapted to Red Lion with some motivation.
Since you asked for optic mount “thoughts” i’ll chip in… i really like the concept and function of the MCarbo mount, but I am unwilling to trade off the storage thickness added to the rifle when the mount is in the “stowed” (open) position. I wouldve preferred it to open and stow in line with the barrel when put away for storage. For that reason i wouldve picked the midwest industries mount if not for the $$. After mounting my optic both ways at 1/3 co witness and also above the irons altogether, i left it mounted with the QD riser (zero co witness)because honestly having the irons in the way while lining up the dot was just annoying. Maybe time and more rounds shot, will change my mind, but i dont understand the point of this 1/3 co witness standard.
I do not think most folks chasing any sort of cowitness actually understand the what or why.
Two reasons to chase the cowitness are:
- hold your cheek weld constant between sighting tools.
- have direct access to back up iron sighting through a dead optic.
IMO - it works best with folding buis. And it costs a bit to get irons that fold on the Sub 2000 (Red Lion Front & MCARBO rear.
I don’t run Irons. My backup is a green laser on a second power source. So, an EMP will take my electronics out of the game and I’ll have to shoot’m with other stuffs.
Good points, consistency goes a long way.
Im good with the " F*** it, whats in front of my eye gets targeted" method. Adaptability is key, and trumps muscle memory.
@cf1k1 "First Off’’ Welcome to the Brotherhood !! I have the Optic Mount from
M*CARBO on Stock Forearm,along with the Folding rear sight which I drill to larger site picture, and using a Burris Fast Fire 3 have been happy with all results for my old 70+ eyes! Enclosed is a picture of my Sight Plane!
I got the Red Lion to the gen 2 I Love It I got that before mcarbo come out with their.
0 problems out of the Red Lion if you oil up the knuckles in cleaning every now and then
Welcome to the Brotherhood
I have the MCARBO rear sight with the stock front. I have a friend who also has a SUB and we chased different things with our money initially. I did the MCARBO pro kit and he did the optic mount with sig romeo series. After shooting his sub that was true cowitnessed, I realized that I was still have an issue with the cheek weld. Me seeking a lower-third is due to hopefully improving the cheek weld in that it’ll be a little bit higher up instead of on my orbit bone.
I use the Midwest Industries rotating mount. Going on two years. There is another topic on this with photos of how I mounted it to stay in place. I like the fact when folded and stored the weapon lays flat. No bulging pieces to get in the way. The down side it’s slower to deploy.