M*CARBO Brotherhood

Optic Mount Scope

Like you all I’ve been patiently been waiting for the foldable optic mount I’ve been considering a 3 x magnification red dot Or Scout scope to help with a longer shots hoping rail will fit my idea

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I’m not sure what you are doing (e.g., the platform/optic/mount/rifle/pistol) but since you mention a scout scope and red dot, here is some information. I’m taking about rifles; No so much pistol–if you’re doing a pistol just carry on.

On scout scopes I have some experience because I take the C&R milsurp rifles, and even the old WIN saddle ring carbines, remove the rear sights, put them in the safe, and install weaver scout scope mounts (e.g., look at BadAceTactical for the milsurps). On the SKS I’m working on now, I’ve done the same thing with a red dot. It’s also not clear at what distance you’re going to be shooting. If it’s a rifle of some sort, I’m addressing a situation where you want to go out to 100 yards or further.

On the scout scopes, which are Long Eye Relief (LER) scopes, there is generally a maximum of 9x power available, and most of these marketed at 9x are actually about 6-7X. It doesn’t matter whether you’re talking about a Vortex, NightForce, LEU, or other name brand. They generally don’t have adequate parallax (the reason why would involve a massive optics discussion), so, your head/eye positioning and distance from rear ocular is critical for consistency. It’s impossible to get small groups with a scout scope if you plan to run and gun because your head is all over the place. Steel plinking sure, accuracy no… AIM sports makes one LER that clocks in at what looks to be close to 12x, so, that one will get you into the 100 yard area if you’re target shooting or doing groups on 3" stick on spots or smaller. At 250 you’re tossing the dice on that same target.

On the red dots…same basic thing applies; Name brand is not going to get you anywhere worth the cost. If you’re into branding, go for that 800 buck 1 MOA Leupold or by all means get tacticool with a Trijicon. But, generally, the “3 MOA” red dots/holographic sights are actually 6 MOA or more (and, they are all made in the same places in China). When it says 5 MOA, well, forget it for accuracy downrange. I can guarantee that if you take your basic “3 MOA’ red dot, sight it in at 50 yards to a 3” stick on target it will subtend the entire target. What does that tell you? It’s actually 6 MOA (or more depending on the “flaring”). That’s 6 inches at 100 yards. That’s 12 inches at 200 yards. So, on red dots the first thing you need to ask (again) is “what is my shooting distance.”

To summarize at this point: It’s going to be tough making that TWD head shot on a Zombie when he’s waaaay out there.

These are just a few things you discover after you’ve spent the money, and after you’ve said “WTF” at the range when you can’t stay on that paper or steel downrange.

Hope this helps.
Carry on dude…smoke em if ya got em.


I want this for my sub 2000 waiting for the new optic mount from mcarbo. I use iron sites out to 35 yards after that up to 50 ish yards I’d like a scout scope or magnified Red Dot for the longer shots

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With the external ballistics of your platform (9 or 40) you shouldn’t have any problems with something like a 2 MOA red dot (the point is if you can get a 2 MOA for 75 bucks, why go with a 6 MOA optic?). Beyond about 75 yards (standard loads) bullet drop comes into play with the fat low BC bullets . There are lots of tables and apps out there that can help you determine this once you have an approximate muzzle velocity. If you want to play with a long eye relief scope, I might consider one with a mil dot reticle that will help you with a required hold over for the 9s and 40s downrange. That’s a simple matter once your brain becomes accustomed to it because one mil at 100 yards is 3.6 inches. At 200 it’s 7.2. And, on and on. A friend at the range routinely plinks steel at 230 yards with a .22 because he knows his ammo and his bullet drop. The problem with the scope is both rapid target acquisition and head positioning–but, with practice you get used to it. It all depends on the magnification and exit pupil combined with the eye relief of the particular scope.

Fun fact…During the development of sniper platforms in Japan around the 1910’s they found that using a 2x scope increased accuracy of a trained soldier/shooter by about 36% (obviously, torso targets…you’re talking huge MOA there). When they increased the scope power to 4x the accuracy of trained shooters was only 2% better. So, the reduction in field of view that occurs by doubling the magnification of the scope was initially viewed as undesirable by the Japanese military. That’s why many of the early sniper platforms in several countries used 2X optics.