M*CARBO Brotherhood

Opinion: .17 HMR or .22 WMR?

The CZ is an awesome choice.

.17 v. .22:

I can find .22 point of impact on paper at 10 yards. .17 not so much.

I can service the .22 bore with tools from my existing kit.

I wouldn’t hesitate to drop a coyote with the .22. I’d be afraid of just wounding it with the .17.

My conclusion: buy the .22 first then pick up the .17 later if you get bored. And just buy more lr to feed the CZ if it will remain a dedicated target shooter.

Neither round extends the effective varmint range substantially over 22lr. Supersonic flight with the tiny pills just doesn’t last long and accuracy is over when speed goes transonic or the target farts blowing your projectile off trajectory. Wind is not your friend.

Look at Hawke glass. They are bigger in the air gunner communities, but I’m really enjoying mine on 22lr.


I hadn’t been looking at them initially, glad I did though. Nice features out of the box with the 3 way adjustable trigger, reduced bolt throw, shorter receiver, revised safety…and in the case of the .22lr Varmint, a wonderfully fat 20" bull barrel. I’ve seen some photos of stunning graining on the walnut stocks as well, hoping for a looker myself.

All fair points. I suppose it’s a matter of faster and flatter for the .17 HMR vs. slower with a harder punch for the .22 WMR, to put it crudely. Important to remember these are fairly small rounds in relative terms.

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I’m sure it will be knowing the quality of CZ.
In the meantime you can enjoy this Ruger American Rimfire in walnut!!


Looks good. What fer glass ya runnin’?

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Just interrupting to mention I look forward to shooting against @AV8R’s Ruger, @chilipepper’s CZ, and @Festus’ Remington - I think I may have to break out a Marlin to stay in this game. @Festus scares me - the old guy knows how to use a peep.


That is a Nikon AR Rimfire. It has a BDC reticle, 1/4 MOA click turrets and I think it’s 7X magnification.
Anyway, super nice glass, very sharp image. It’s a shame they got out of the business.
I’m trying to find a gunsmith to thread the barrel at the moment.


I’m up for it!!
I need to get some practice in.:boom::boom::boom:


As I understand it Nikon made some pretty good stuff for reasonable coin. Still quite a bit of it for sale out there. I’m torn with going big, with higher magnification and parallax correction or sticking with something similar to what’s on my AP-15, a 1-6x24 BDC w/30mm tube. I have issues with the high powered scopes and tunnel vision, must be my eyes but they don’t work as well for me, I have a really hard time getting a decent sight picture…though I do like the extra magnification. Given the rounds I’m shooting, I’m not convinced I need a scope with magnification designed for anything over 150-200 yards.

Shooting .223 in my AR-556 with that 1-6x24 and the BDC dialed in, I was able to put 10 rounds in an 8" disc at 300 yards, but I couldn’t really see much of the target at that distance, if I’m honest.

I’d actually considered going with another of the same scope for the CZ but they changed the reticle from what I have and I don’t like the new one.

I don’t have any cans but this is the only thing I’m missing with the 457 Varmint, the Pro Varmint I originally ordered had a 16" threaded bull barrel, this one has a 20" unthreaded bull.


You have a .22 and even if you do upgrade to .22 WMR it still wont extend your range too much unless you have Ideal low wind conditions, (rare for me) Most if not all your shooting
will be with the .22lr option and 25-100 yards, after that its a Hail Mary shot with a lot of elevation to lob them in after they drop out of supersonic. can be done for sure… that chick shooting the egg @ 300 was damn impressive! but keep it real and you will shoot more. Light weight and the smallest amount a dickery to take it out and easily shoot it will count for more rounds fired then a “System” with all kinds of steps. Perfect is the enemy of Good. Time on the trigger will count for far more fun and fun equals experience and skill building. If you can see the impacts though the scope at 100 yards you don’t need more magnification. and paper gets very boring + the hassle … popcans filled with water and steel moving (reaction) targets keep the interest up.
Make it easy and fun and you will shoot more.
I got WAY more fun out of a light weight fixed 4 power scope that required nothing than I ever did out of a much fancier setup. I pared down calibers and complexity, shot more, and became far more proficient with what I have vs a closet full of expensive unused toys I could not use to their capabilities.


@Wyo … I was composing a post during my catchup. Your post killed it.

@chilipepper … if it’s your thing, your CZ is good for hits to 300. I’m a huge fan of LPVO optics and 1-10 is a thing now. I think your budget will like a 3-9 betterer.

DO get an AO scope if you can swing it. It really makes a huge difference for sight picture and hits. If you stick to 100 yards exclusively … belay that advice. You’ll need it in the squirrel woods less’n your a fuzzy tail’d rat lubber.

Finally that through tube effect is greatly diminished by good glass and proper mounting. Mounting in that the eye relief of the scope actually dictates mounting location once you fix your cheek weld position.


You need to fix that if they’re legal in MD.
Your 22 would be quieter firing than the noise you make working the slide.


I hear ya and I suspect they are (at the moment, anyway), but I’ve got other places to spend the money for the tax stamp and can at the moment. Plus, I have to wear ear pro at the range regardless of suppressor use or not.

Regardless, it won’t work on the incoming 457 Varmint model unless I have a gunsmith thread it. I may do one at some point but it’s down the road a bit. For now it would be nice to find some ammo at reasonable prices (.22lr aside)… :crazy_face:

I was gonna say something about knowing you’re a big can man, but that really doesn’t read the way it was intended… :grinning:


Oh yes it did!!


I’ve had higher power scopes with AO, but do they make lower power models with AO? That feature seems to be relegated to the ~14x and above.

For reference, the only magnified scope I have at the moment is a Vortex Strike Eagle 1-6x24 with a 30mm tube. I quite like it, I think it has really good glass for the price - clear and crisp, the sight picture through the tube doesn’t feel confined, decent eye relief but the 6x leaves something to be desired when shooting at 100 and beyond. I can still get decent hits but I’m not seeing much of what I’m shooting at, especially beyond 100…

I suspect most of my shooting will be at the range and probably 100 and under, though I am tempted to have a go at the 200 berm. While I know she can hit at 300, I doubt I’d spend too much time doing work at that distance.


As a point of example:

Hawke 3-9 AO 1/4 click Turret scope

Not selling you on a specific model, but I landed on Hawke for my big magnification rimfire scope - I’m happy with mine.

Had a 1-6 Strike Eagle. Sold it to GF’s Son when I finally caught Palmetto State Armory with the 1-8 Strike Eagle. This is a very high value sight IMO - actually became a believer re glass quality looking through the 1-6. I mounted it in location for 8x eye relief and she’s awesome; she sights for my 556. I’m thinking 'bout getting into a 1-10 for my .308 BLR.

Edited to point link at the scope I think you should consider. I don’t know why the description is skewed, but this is now pointing at a 3-9, AO, 1/4 MOA turret scope less than $200.


Yes he does
He’s had that rifle for a long time and is very good with it.


Ok Chili, It’s a .22… and isn’t a super high dollar anschutz target gun or some other tricked out tack driver that looks all weirded out to extract the last degree of accuracy…
SO, prolly the best you can hope for and with the Very high dollar Lapua or CCI green tag or some other “Match” ammo at 20 -40 cents a round and you don’t know which one YOUR rifle will like the best and it’s .22 LR so no reloading to tweak with, you prolly will have… if the gods smile on you a 1 MOA rifle, nothing to sneeze at, but doubtful cloverleafs ever at any longer distance… clover leafs cost big bucks and real dedication and perfect conditions.

Then you talk about changing barrels… that is a re-zero every time you even touch a barrel fastener…Not to mention changing calibers which is a whole nother animal…

Dunno dude.
Whats your philosophy of use here? paper punching gets pretty boring except for a very dedicated few who live for that. and if that is your goal I am not certain you have the right gun for that unless you are content with holes in a 1 inch + or so random pattern on the target @ 100 yards.

To me, a .22 is a fun gun for multi use and hitting targets that move, knock down, blow up, and a few holes in paper from time to time with utility for varmints and small game.

If THAT is your goal, get a simple fixed 4 power light weight scope and have grab and go fun with cheap bulk pack ammo.

It’s not a super precision tack driver out of the box and to get it so will cost you YUGE bucks and time.

Perfection is the Enemy of Good.


I agree with a lot of this.

I built an expensive .22 on a Volquartsen 10-22 platform. Spent lots, even shimmed the hammer and trigger for perfect alignment and friction reduction. It had a .920 Bull barrel and only consumed Eley ammunition. Leupold VX-1 glass, polished bolt and polished receiver Internal.
Great gun but ultimately total overkill. :joy:

I discovered I had much more fun with my Winchester Model 69 from 1937 that has Winchester factory peep sights.
I still have it and it still shoots great.
The thousand Dollar 10-22 was sold, the new owner loved it and I was happy to see it go. :wink:
Oh and I got into the Winchester for $150!!

I have other .22 rifles both bolt and semi-auto and I found that all I really need is a good quality 4X scope.


Yeah, it was my first Vortex and I was very impressed with the level of quality for the money. I’m currently running it on my 20" barrel AR-15. Once dialed in the BDC holds work like it says on the tin, I’ve used it out to 300 and it’s been spot on…which is particularly impressive considering I could barely see anything of the 8" target at that distance with full magnification. I actually like the sound of the 1-8x but, as stated before, I’m not big on the latest reticle they’re putting in the Strike Eagles.

It is…and with all the quirks that come with that round.

It isn’t. But it gets great reviews across the board, It’s a good bolt action .22lr which is what I wanted and it will serve me well. I have little doubt in that and full confidence in CZ as a gun manufacturer.

I’ve seen evidence of sub 1 MOA with this particular gun but that wasn’t with me in the driver’s seat or using the ammo I have in stock, which is what it will be fed. I have low hopes for the 900 rounds of Armscor but it won’t run well in any of my semi-autos so the bolt gun will bear the load. I’m sure it will fair better with the CCI I’ve got, but it will only get that for dessert.

Yes, just talking…I do not own any of the conversion barrels as of yet and likely won’t for some time (if ever). I am under no illusion of what changing the barrel would entail in regards to sighting. Honestly I would expect to have to re-zero the thing and would be delightfully surprised if the scope or sights required no adjustment after doing the swap. Do bear in mind that if I did go for a conversion barrel, I would not be changing the thing out every other week or trip to the range, that would not be the intent in getting one.

Still I like the idea that with an additional barrel and mag I can change up the gun for something a little different, and do so rather quickly. I also appreciate the engineering of the gun in that it was built to allow for such a thing, I like smart designs. All value added in my mind, though not necessarily primary points in the decision making process when buying the gun.

Well, mainly to have a decent bolt action .22lr in the gun stash, for starters. The bulk of use will be from 25-100 yards, plinking and paper at 25 (though my semi-auto M4-22 is essentially setup for this), paper at 50 and paper as well as some steel for shits and giggles at 100. I do not have the luxury of shooting whatever I want, wherever I want (sorry, nothing that blows up). I am limited to what my local range offers and allows (which is actually quite a lot from what I gather). I haven’t hunted animals in decades but that’s not to say it won’t see some varmint and small game action at some point. No telling what the future holds.

A pretty reasonable assessment, I would say. Except for the “blowing up”, can’t do that here.

If I’m only going 4x, I probably wouldn’t bother. I’ll shoot irons or 1x glass before going with a 4x, it doesn’t offer my not-so-great-aging-eyes any real advantage. That said, I don’t need to see a gnat’s ass at 100 so I really don’t think I need anything over 10x, certainly not 12x+. Since I’m fond of my Vortex Strike Eagle 1-6x24, I’m thinking something along those lines with a little more top end magnification, enough so that I can see my hits at 100 without needing a spotting scope or having to wait until the RSO calls a cold range so I can check my target.

EDIT: And thanks to everyone for all the input, this is why I love the Brotherhood! Good stuff!


I am outta likes so you have to wait for that. The strike eagle is a HEAVY scope ( I own 3) for a 22. and really cuts down on the handiness of a .22 100 yards is the extreme distance for .22LR I find I mostly shoot 60 or less. 4 power at that distance is greater than 6x at 100 for the actual view and 10x bino’s are easy to buy and have.

Are you saying you ONLY shoot at a range? No plinking? and blowing up usually refers in my case to pop cans with water and such esp with stingers, a 4 power makes it light handy and kinda a no brainer as the graduations for BDC don’t change with the power levels as they do with a strike eagle… if you only run at 6 all the time get a fixed 6-7X they are always lighter and smaller than variable.

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