Is it necessary to use defense Ammo when sighting in?

Gotcha but don’t they teach LE’s to empty the mag? I thought that was the case.

That’s a big negative. Only such force necessary to terminate the threat. That’s terminate as in stop, not as in ending their life. Also applies to less than lethal force such as empty hands, impact or electronic weapons.


For those reasons and many more, I carry the ammunition and weapon systems I am most accurate with. Also look to ensure a lack of over penetration. The FBI has some things right. Logic and science can be thoroughly applied to any situation. I have protected some really recognizable people. I like to always have a well thought through plan to move as quietly and safely along. BUT be ready to make surgical shots in defense if necessary.


Being a former P.O., I agree! Always shoot to stop the threat, you never know what drives an individual to do the things they do or has had done to them in their life. Some people are victims of circumstance, upbringing or mentally disturbed! IM NOT EXCUSING ANY ACTIONS OF ANY INDIVIDUAL, but if you or your loved ones faces a threat, just be able to stop that threat! If in fear for yours or another life then DPF is to be met with DPF and such force must be necessary. I was trained that center mass is your biggest target, and to stop the threat. I was also trained that anyone within 21’, whom has a deadly weapon or dangerous instrument, can kill you by the time you un-holster and shoot!
I always say “be bare aware”! A firearm is a tool for a P.O. to preform his/her job, keep your tool clean & sharp, be ready to go to work at a moment’s notice!

I love sport shooting, that’s why I’m on this forum. I also love my right to bare arms and to be able to protect my family, myself and if need be, an innocent victim of a crime. But I hope to god I’m never faced with that situation.

I’ve been shot at in the dark, walked into a shoot out, have drawn my weapon in plenty of circumstances, while on the job, where I was ready to do the unthinkable, if I had to, but I never fired a shot at a human-being!

Thank you god for looking after me the way you do!



Can I have a discussion with the LEO’s here (and former) without pissing you guys off? Before 2020 I had nothing but respect for you guys but after? There was a state trooper in my county that threatened a woman for taking a drive in her car alone. Then there’s that whole civil asset forfeiture. Most of the time the victims of that never get their belongings back. Or how about the whole SCOTUS ruling that police don’t actually have to protect citizens? Or how about the Uvalde school massacre where, what, an army of police stood down while a psycho shot kids one by one over the course of an hour?

How do we fix this? It didn’t use to be this way. A lot of my uncle’s and great uncles were cops in Hammond and Gary Indiana. None of them would have hesitated to rush in at uvalde. Heck if my kid were in there I wouldn’t hesitate to go right through the cops using any force necessary to do so (and I wouldn’t be alone in my town…). As for civil asset forfeiture none of my uncle’s would have done that unless they found drugs. Just having cash isn’t a valid reason but now? I can find numerous articles of it happening to normal people. And the crap that happened during covid? Just because the governor mandated crap doesn’t mean it’s law and doesn’t mean it’s moral.

So how do we get morality back in the ranks of the blue? And don’t even get me started on morality in politicians or even just the population at large!

Police are the enforcement arm of all totalitarians. Just look at what’s coming out right now about J6. Even the capital police knew they were being set up but not a one came forward? Really?

Then we have the FBI and their antics. There was, what, 5 feds imbedded in the Whitmer kidnapping group and only 3 civvies that were entrapped into going along with their “plan”?

I’m as red blooded as any American you’ll find but I’m starting to question a whole lot of our agencies on all levels. There are a LOT of good guys still in but there’s a lot of cancer too and it’s spreading fast. How do we stop that? How do we restore law and order in our law agencies?


Fire’m as quick as we can identify the bad actors.

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The one that came forward got fired.

It may help your opinion of the general group to know that Austin, TX (libtard controlled town) is losing police as fast as they can find alternate work.


That shouldn’t just be Texas.

Imagine if a governor mandated that everyone has to wear a red dress to fight sexism. But, you see, a group of people said, “I’m not sexist. I shouldn’t have to wear a red dress”. So the governor made it “illegal” to not wear a red dress.

How many police would rather enforce wearing a red dress vs ignoring the order?

How many would recognize the absurdity and the illegality of the order and actually do something to stop it? Like arresting the governor for false imprisonment of the people?

Or, say, a governor orders nursing homes to take in patients with a deadly virus there by causing the deaths of thousands of elderly all in order to keep a president from getting re-elected?

The police, even the good ones, are letting the real criminals walk. My God I swear the people would get behind the first sheriff that arrested someone like Wolfe for the crap he did!

Instead we have grandma in jail for taking a selfie in the Capital after being invited in by the capital police.

Seems to me it’s time the good guys did some, well, good.

Edit: I’ve gone off topic again. Sorry.

Maybe I should just start a thread but I’m not sure the LEO’s here would take it right. I’m honestly concerned with the direction the country is going and the first line of enforcement is the police. The military teaches to disobey an unlawful order but that isn’t emphasized (or emphasized enough) with the police. For the betterment of society I hope they know when to say no.


And the groups wanting to Defund The Police are now backtracking.

Ohio is talking about dropping the age requirement for 21 to 18 to be a police officer.
You can shoot but you cant drink? You cant buy a pistol.


“how do we stop that” - Stop lowering the physical and intellectual standards for hiring in order to achieve racial or gender “equity”. Same for promotions, base them on who they are, not what they are.
If the motivation for hiring or promoting someone is because they would be “the first” of whatever “under represented” group they identify as, then they aren’t truly qualified and don’t deserve the position.


Back on topic a little…What hasn’t been mentioned is replacing your defensive ammo periodically. Or that’s my practice anyway. Every six months a new box is brought into rotation. This allows me to use my defensive ammo to verify POI and ensure the carry and my practice ammo are hitting the same POA. I’ll be the first to admit I have OCD.


I don’t but I respect having a system and a plan. I hold a relatively large stash of defensive rounds. I try to buy it packed for LE 'cause it is priced muuuch better than the 20 round retail packs. So, I have 9mm and 45 that is pushing 5 years - hardly fresh, but consistently shoots every time I shoot through a mag.

I’m confident in my stash and its performance on my firearms. I think this is the key to the system I promote. I try to buy range fodder as I shoot it.


How you store it is everything. Store it in a climate controlled closet and it’ll last a longer than in a swamp.

That said I typically don’t hold onto ammo for long even though I always have a stash that would rival small gun shops.

Going back to way above: if your defensive ammo is somehow shooting 6" out from your range ammo at 10-15 yards something is wrong with one or the other. I could see an inch and that’s not going to matter one bit in a bad situation. 6"? Try different ammo.

I’m just speaking from personal experience.

My go to bulk range ammo in 9mm is Blazer 115gr brass. You can get cheaper but it’s not worth it.

I tested it out to 25 yards with my P320xc, Rugar LC9, Kimber micro 9, and S2K and it was more consistent than any other ammo I had on hand and that was out of about 10 different types of all qualities.

So that’s my range round of choice in anything 9mm.

Ammo inc bulk for my .308 is also better than supposed match grade stuff from any brand I’ve tried (and I tried several there too!). That gun is one I wanted to be as extremely accurate as I could make it. I can put 10 rounds through a quarter at 200 with that gun as long as I’m using the ammo inc cheap stuff.

I just shoot the Remington bucket of bullets through the .22 and whatever brass is cheapest through my AR. I only really notice a difference in some .22 for those calibers so I stick with anything but those.

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