First Look! New SUB-2000 Hinge Optic Mount - Prototype

#458

The ski boot comparison helps. Thank you I believe I understand.

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#459

We found a way to eliminate that feature to keep the function and allow easy folding without clearance issues

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#460

If you could please post a graphic in the mount in the stowed position, that would be most helpful. If you find it possible please a video or CAD gif of the unit in operation. Thank you.

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#461

First post here. Found my way here from czfirearms dot us forum… Talking about sub2k there, this came up, wasn’t aware of this forthcoming offering, and this thread has all the details…

In brief, today’s posting of the design looks great. But engagement mechanism does seem unnecessarily complicated, which will add cost and complexity. Does it allow the sub2k to fold to lock, or just mostly fold?

I think gatekeeper’s earlier post regarding Larue’s mount is on point for where the mechanism needs to be. VZ58’s stock hinge works similarly. Center spring loaded pivot pin w/ button feature locks into notches on stock arm at both open and closed. Spring pushes pin into open and closed notches. Galil stocks work similarly but have different style of lock, which might also provide some inspiration. About Galils’ hinge mechanism – their design does allow some wear and tear over time while still keeping lock solid, while larue and VZ58 are less forgiving for perfect tension/zero wobble if locking notch gets mangled. Notably, your initial pull road is likely similar to the VZ58’s push button design. Personally, I’d prefer firmly pushing a button to pulling a protruding rod, but YMMV.

Regardless of mechanism, I would encourage a bevel on closed so that optic can open without the need to push a button, etc, which current iteration accomplishes – it’d also provide some optic protection in event of drop, etc, somewhat like magpul mbus… To that end, spring tension to automatically open/deploy red dot also seems like a no brainer here but would likely require an add’l spring, but would also likely provide some forgiveness to wear and tear of locking mechanism (if using larue/VZ58 folding stock hinge style) over time due to indexing against one edge of device. Maybe make the auto-open spring a user-choice feature.

On auto open, could even have the springs push to a 45* stop coming off of hinge arm (would need to cut buttom picatinny arm to 45* too, but that would align more w/ angular skeleton cuts than current fluid curve of bottom). To be clear, they don’t have to be 45* but two angles that mesh for support, and would provide add’l protection wear of spring lock if using a VZ58 folding stock hinge/larue folding mount style locking piece.
On user-serviceable, VZ58’s the button is a threaded nut that can be removed – potentially an ar15 dust cover or similar style spring could be added to whichever side of picatinny rail that’s not the tensioning spring – again if going w/ a VZ58/galil stock, larue mount style mechanism.

Regardless of hinge–the picatinny block definitely needs scalloped/skeletonized/fluted. Nothing you do there will be detrimental to combat-effective accuracy relative to flex of polymer handguard, etc, limitations of the gun/mounting. Recognizing weight savings will be minimal, as is, that portion looks unfinished, especially relatively lightening cutouts on the side plate. Maybe even consider changing that picatinny to an mlok mount where users can add their own RMR/Aimpoint Pro/rail of whatever height and length desired.

Lastly, unless you mount to barrel internally, the rigidity of the mount will always be compromised by the lack of rigidity in the clamshell handguards. Recognizing that and for a combat-effective red dot on a pistol caliber carbine, I’d personally prefer lower cost and more simple design than perfectly repeatable zero. A 3-4 MOA in shift is well within acceptable range, even in hostage situations, given the limitations of this weapon.

Apologies on the novel. Really cool what you’re doing on this forum.

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#462

@rsr, Think and handguard stabilizer like this would be effective in mitigating the MOA shift?

http://www.performanceservicesmachining.com/kel-tec-sub-2000-products/kel-tec-sub-2000-handguard-stabilizer/

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#463

I actually picked that up the other day. Installing it showed me that the Magpul rail screws were actually hitting the barrel, torquing the forend to the left (run the rail for a TLR-1). Dremel the screws down a little bit, and was golden.

It really does tighten up the forend. Did notice some play beforehand, but now, it is solid.

Also picked up that Tacticool BrassBox, which I’m planning on adding a relief cut so I can put it on with the rear sight folded. Looking at the pictures, it doesn’t look like it will cause any issue with the mount. But it isn’t something that stays on the gun when folding, anyways.

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Looking For This Part
#464

The new re-design looks good. I do know that whether it has a lever or push button, I’ll be holding on to the optic to prevent any spring loaded shock from getting to it when it slams/locks into position.

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#465

@ChrisNelson
Ok, we have seen the hinged mount in the closed position but what will it look like opened up?
When the latched is released and the item attached to the mount swings out how far will it project ?

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#466

Chris has released a video deploying the optic mounted sub 2000 from a bag in his vehicle on Instagram. Good stuff!

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#467

I just saw it on FB and jumped on here to see if there was any new info on it. Good stuff indeed!

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#468

Any chance you can link it for my antinsta soul?

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#469

Full disclosure this is NOT my video and I only uploaded it to my YouTube so it could be posted here. It’s also unlisted.

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#470

That was like freakin’ greased lightning!! Thanks @Kona for postin that! :+1:

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#471

LOL had to frame by frame it , it was so quick. trying to see the height of the mount .looks to be co-witnessed.:+1::+1::+1::+1::+1:

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#472

If the optic is capable of handling the Gs of a recoil, I’m confident the relatively lower Gs of the spring thump will not be an issue.

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#473
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#474

Don’t be so sure of that. An optic is designed to take linear recoil, not being snapped to the side. A springer type airgun can completely destroy a scope even though the recoil pulse fore/aft is still linear.

But, after watching that latest video from Chris above, it doesn’t look like the spring snap is all that significant anyway.

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#475

@GOBLIN

I don’t know Buck, I just watched it a few times and the center of the rear peep looks like it hits at the bottom of that optic.

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#476

@dave67 I will watch it again, I got that blurry line at the top when i pause, i will try it on full screen this time…yep your right, level with the bottom. good eye.

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#477

We just finished our second prototype testing today. It passed all testing criteria and we are getting ready to move into production. There will be one more round of small changes. A third prototype and testing just to confirm none of the changes impacted the critical function of the optic mount. From there it will take about 12 weeks for production.

This is the time for any last-minute input. Do you guys want this optic mount to co-witness with the iron sites?
Absolute Co-Witness or Lower 1/3 Co-Witness?

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