M*CARBO Brotherhood

Cutting Edge Bullets

Thank you for testing the Sig 365 ammo and getting the speed data out of a S2K.
If you have the capability to test another type of round also. It is called Cutting Edge bullets. They have blades that sheer off into a star shape cavity. Here are some more details.
Cutting Edge Bullets 9MM PHD (Personal Home Defense)

Here is a video: (Start at :45 into the video. The beginning is just braggart hunting footage.)

These are the ones that are $33 for a box of 20 count.


LOL … don’t waste your money. Death by a thousand cuts is slow, messy and most importantly it is less likely to immediately stop a closing BG.

Now … if you want to put them in my hands I’ll chrono them but I ain’t likely to buy them. If you are interested in alternative solutions, look at the Extreme Defenders Underwood is loading. It’s a CNC’d solid that produces devastating wound cavities but are basically undamaged when recovered. I have the qued up to investigate but mine are 10 and 45 so not Sub2k friendly.


got just the 9mm bullets to load to std velocity for the sub 2 on the way… maybe some subsonic loads to try out…
so far got em as far as the defender in 45 and 9X18 MAK penatrators in 45/70 gvt…


@GOBLIN I respect those rounds and there is no question that they are great penetrators. That is my concern though. I have little ones in the house and don’t want through the wall variables to worry about. Just into 2 legged varmint and stop. And if there is a miss, not penetrating multiple layers of drywall. I can’t wait to get out to the farm and get those melon, ribs, tee shirt, denim, leather jacket, Jack Harell style tests done.


@Gatekeeper that used to be my concern as well, to the point i scooped up a roadkill deer, stood it up in front of a mockup sheetrock wall, and tried different rounds till i settled on the one that did the most damage to the chest cavity, without any penetration to the wall, from 10 to 20 feet.
at that time, the only one i found for the 1911, that wouldnt blow thru was the Glaser Blue tips. thats been my ammo for in the house situations, since 1998 not the best ammo by anymeans, but the best for my situational requirements…(grandaughter then in 2001 girldchild) over penetration / wound characteristics were my main concern. now, granddaughter is grown and has her own protection ( Sig) girlchild is 17, has her own as well,and off to collage in less than 2 years, Im starting to revamp now as those constraints wont be on me 24/7 anymore. but i fully understand your situation, been there.


@GOBLIN @Gatekeeper
I know it is all about the SHTF… I just pray that I will NEVER have to use a firearm! The entire ‘mess’ of the situation and then having to deal with it ‘emotionally!’ I just don’t ever want to have to endure ANY of it!


In complete agreement. I am more worried about the “fight” that would come after the fight. Legal, Civil, and all the other mess that would go with it… For defending your family in your own home.
I think of it as a fire extinguisher . I have a couple and hope I never have to use one. Because if I call 911 it may already be too late before help arrives. i.e. fireman, police, or EMT. That’s why CPR is so important to know. Never know when you may have to sustain a life during heart attack or stroke before more advanced medical help arrives. You family’s safety if first and foremost your own responsibility then count on social resources for support.


I just couldnt resist…:smiling_imp::smiling_imp::smiling_imp::smiling_imp::smiling_imp::smiling_imp::smiling_imp:


Have you considered Glaser Silver tip? It uses no. 6 shot instead of no. 12. Gives about 1/3 deeper penetration and delivers a little more energy with the larger pellet size. They are recommended particularly in colder climates where one may have to penetrate through heavy clothing. I use them in 40 & 45 cal. when I am working a Personal Security Detail (bodyguard) because of the reduced danger of over penetration and ricochet in crowded environments.


I considered the Silver tip Glaser’S, the blue tip never did me wrong, only problem was the dang price, when I decided on em, at that time, blue tip was the only game from them in town besides their round, earler in my search for a HD round,there were the Black tipped Velet rounds, (among others)which had a capsuled Mercury in em, not fulminated Mercury but Mercury, they were the Exploder rounds of the 80s, I found em lacking, so i kept looking, went to the Black talons, till "our protectors " decided to pull em for our own “good” :rofl::rofl::rofl: 2001 when I adopted girlchild, it my my search for a hard hitter but non wall buster, more important…
what hurt about the Bluetips, local they were about 15$ for 5 rounds. they are 6 magazines, loaded, kept with the home nightcrawler firearm.
I can buy the 45+p underwoods, with the Lehigh defender bullet, for right at 25$ for 20 rounds loaded, or right at 45$ for just the Lehigh defender bullet. 100 of the 45/70 brass penetrater bullets was right at 56$ Im building up my loading supplies, now as girlchild goes off to college in 1 year and 3 months…damn, 17 years flew by.
anyway, in all my years i never could find a source for Glasers just the bullet… I really like how the Lehighs hit, and mushroom, they do penetrate Sheetrock, but they dont blow thru outer brick… and with her leaving the nest, im not as concerned about inner walls. aint no one here but me. and i doubt seriously at my age, DSS would approve me adopting another child…


A fairly consistent source for Glasers is often gunbroker.com. I’ve gotten them in packs of 6 for $12-$14. Though a few times the seller wanted more for shipping than the ammo costs. I was not a byer at that price. Even though I am retired LE, I can still buy the Winchester Talon rounds through Sportsman’s Super Store, but I have to provide my retired LE ID to purchase. You can get them as a civilian on gunbroker. They are no longer called Black Talon, to satisfy the liberals they are now listed as Winchester Ranger SXT (supreme expansion talon). They are still considered at the top of all defense rounds, you just don’t see them in many tests on the internet because they are not generally available for purchase on the retail market to civilians. Though they are also not generally illegal to possess by civilians. It was Winchester’s response to the anti gun politicians, in exchange for not outlawing them, they would continue to manufacture just not sell retail to the civilian market


Really poor trigger discipline, no?


The silver tips use no. 6 shot as opposed to the blue tip which use no. 12. The silvers are supposed to give you approx. 30 percent better penetration in human tissue. I use the silvers in my 38 and 357 revolvers and my 40 and 45 cal semiautos. When I am working VIP protection I carry three different types of rounds, glaser silver, Win. Talons and ARX fluted. Which one goes into the weapon depends on the environment. Very close up crowds - glaser, potential for a distance shot - ARX, general all around use - Talons.


Some gel and sheetmetal results:



I tested the 45 /70 penetrators, junk yard car, blew thru driver door, roadkill deer chest area(originally intact before 2 rounds ) and out the passenger side door. ( 2 shots, 50 yds then 100 yds)steel body ford( 80s ford 2 door out in the swamp to far to drag out)
the 9x18 mak defenders, bust a melon heavier then the 9X19 CD rounds I shot at a similar sized melon, and the 45 ACP +P expansion on the Leigh defender round was excellent.
the hole left in the deer carcass goin in, lil bigger than my thumb coming out I coulda put both my fists in it, with enough energy to blow thru the outer door in that cnc brass bullet.
Im a lil confused by the 4 bullets on the machinists scale, as those look to be copper, and the

round is solid brass with the defender round being solid copper…

someday someones going to happen that rusted out car with a deer skeleton sitting behind the wheel, and freak out…