M*CARBO Brotherhood

Creating The Perfect Shooting Class

Yesterday the Instructors, Coaches, and RSOs met to discuss curriculum and lesson plans for the HGSC. We hold classes and range training for people seeking their CHL.

Talk turned to offering an intermediate to advanced class. And as usual it quickly devolved into a debate between the tactical pistol competitors and the 3-gunners!:angry:

My question to the forum, what skills and techniques would you like to work on if you attended such a class? What suggestions do you have?

I would appreciate your advice and collective wisdom on this subject.

5 Likes

People seek the Canadian Hockey League?

1 Like

@Aravena Huh? Not sure I understand your reply brother.:confused:

1 Like

@Aravena CHL is short for concealed handgun license.:wink:

4 Likes

Just to speed things up a bit, here is my thought process on how such a course/class might look like…

First, run against the shot timer and score only A-zone hits.

Second, have solid left and right barricades/corners for shooting positions.

Third, reasonable number of targets…2-5, no zombie hordes!

Fourth, no reloads! (I know this is sacrilege, but how many of us carry reloads in real life?)

Fifth, bring what you got! Be it a mouse gun or hand cannon, what you carry every day is what you use.

Sixth, engagement ranges from point blank to 25 yards.

Just were I am at so far…

3 Likes

I assumed but CCL is the normal term. Funny, I had a long serious reply and decided to go with that. Either way, I’d say realism to keep it short. Are we talking for regular people or pros? That list is not for regular people at all or realistic.

2 Likes

@Aravena and that is why I am here, posting this. I have been around competition for so long that I am not sure what “regular people” want or need?

1 Like

@Aravena Some states only issue CHL - concealed handgun license, while others have CCL -concealed carry license for any type of firearm.

2 Likes

@Don68 @Aravena So what would be good class/course of fire for folks who have experience but are NOT diehard competitors?

Last shotgun school I attended we had to have 600 rounds! Yes I can load quads from my backbone shell holder, but that is not what I would use in real life!

And that is my point…when I walk out of the house I have just a PPQ with a single mag. For home defense I have KSGs with 14+1 rounds. My truck gun is an old MAK90 with a 30-round magazine. I normally do not carry multiple magazines or shellholders in real life.

2 Likes

@Johnksg I think that for a CHL, the main focus should be on safety , safety, the law , safety, how to draw from wearing a concealed weapon and more safety. Shooting should be at bad breath range out to about 25 feet , this is where most CHL holders would use them. Latter classes could be about how to become a better shot. And I agree that they should use what ever gun they will be carrying. This might seem a little simplistic , but most of the students are going to be first time shooters and need to learn the fundamentals , remember you have to learn how to walk before you can run.
A quick Poll
Do you have a carry permit?

  • yes
  • no

0 voters

6 Likes

For one, realize most people just have one gun and maybe 2 mags at most. It’s there everyday all I need and even then for some it’s revolvers. Setup real life areas, malls, restaurants, bars etc. Where mass shootings have occur and go through a scenario yourself and go from there. You were a Marine right, they had to train you on entering and clearing out. We did it in the Navy on a ship. Just my idea when I bring it up. I keep pushing for it as a law so not just anyone can get a conceal carry. People are not trained or understand the responsibility at all when handed that.

reality is no one can ever be sure when the time comes what they’ll do or if they can draw but at least something realistic might put them in the mindset of, “f*** it. I can’t do this.” At least then they’ll know and that’s one less danger on the streets of irresponsible use, bad carry, etc. home defense is different a thorough class could show the difference and maybe they’ll stick to home defense.

4 Likes

That whole and law and what not is the problem now. That’s what classes are and it’s not enough. Everyday we’re trying to convince a buddy not to carry. He’s not responsible and has no concept of the duty and what it is to carry a gun on you. This is why I fight for gun control in the form of proper training before carrying. A range is a good start, but a better shot under fire or anytime you draw your gun in an uncontrolled environment will not help or train you properly.

So yeah, it’s over simplistic since it’s what already exists. I think @Johnksg is asking for something more than what’s already there and to add on to it.

2 Likes

@godallmighty and @Aravena both of you make good points…

I am kinda the “legal beagle” read the statutes and case law/court rulings. I also take the time to study our local DA’s and their charging practices.

But legal talk makes most folks eyes glaze over in their heads! Lol

I can draw and put rounds on target in less than a second, been doing it for over 30+ years, but then a student shows up with arthritis and a thumb safety…

I would like to see an intermediate class, I enjoy teaching, but I think that those of us who have done this so long and compete sometimes forget what the average user needs in the way of skillsets?

I do think teaching a safe draw is important!

2 Likes

@godallmighty Good Point Gotta Learn to Walk Before Running ! @Johnksg (Keep it Simple) I Recently had to take a 8hr Basic Hand Gun Safety Course Court Order’ 2 Tours Nam Vet ? Now that’s funny, But it was a great Taught Class with a really good discussion on firearms Types and Functions and then the Safety Aspects’

3 Likes

@DivaMarie we sign certificates for between 200-300 people per year. In OR you can take an online course or a course like ours that has a range component.

We get little old ladies who have to use a “loaner gun” usually a .22 to get their certification.

I think we need a “next step” in our courses!

Something practical and realistic…not a competitive scenario.

So what kinda class would you guys like? Give me some insight.

4 Likes

Here is an example of what I would like to teach…this lady did everything wrong, but got the most important part right! (Speed and aggression!)

Meanwhile her “man” comes out scratching his nut sack! Lol

3 Likes

Wa. state is CPL - concealed pistol license… I guess we can’t carry revolvers here :face_with_raised_eyebrow: lol I’ve had my license for several years now and have been taking classes provided by our Sheriff’s dept. for about 3 years that I think are just what you are looking for. Bear in mind - Wa. is not a mandatory training state - just pass a background check and pay $50. Personally for me I think they are a great idea and am very thankful for these free of charge classes (just pass a background check and bring your own ammo). They offer an essentials class (the VERY basics - 3 hrs classroom + 1 hr shooting), a fundamentals class, and then Gunfighting 101 which has been a little different every time I have taken it. They also have a house clearing class (one of the best!!), and a low light class and a couple carbine classes I have yet to take. I have learned so MANY skills and practice drills from these classes and I definitely plan to continue them - I also support them through $donation. I think I have posted this link elsewhere on the forum here it is again… I’m sure it would be okay to contact them through FB and they might even be willing to share their curriculum with you.

4 Likes

I want to enthusiastically disagree. Convince me I’m wrong - show me the mass casualties piled up from years of licensed carry.

In TX our hit probability is better than the police. I understand I don’t see the dynamic situations faced by the police but I can’t pass up the opportunity to present results which support my position.

3 Likes

@TriggerHappy saw that before when you posted it and is a good idea!

I am looking to create something practical, safe, and at the same time realistic and aggressive!

That “next step” in shooting.

This may sound stupid, but I have been doing this so long that I get a bit bored. I know I will hit my target, only challenge comes from the timer and barricades!

@Kona would have some insight I think?

You got me with that one! I RSO for the police…we have everything from competitors to guys who sweat their annual quals!

LEOs often are not as highly trained as your average competitor!

2 Likes