M*CARBO Brotherhood

Competition Short Stroking The SUB2000

Any competition shooters here attempted or successfully found a reliable way to short stroke the SUB-2000?

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Usually, short stroking something like a pump shotgun or whatever is a bad thing. Why would you want to do it reliably?

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To minimize bolt travel, felt recoil, and to get the dot to reset on target faster.

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Well, we must have very different definitions of short stroking, then.

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@njlarsen

That is what the M*Carbo Bolt Tube Cover and the Skeletonized Handle are for.They will greatly help felt recoil. Don’t forget a muzzle break. I am sure that you will find that much of an improvement… Please go into a little more explanation to help us out, brother.

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Yup! I’m planning on all that on my next SUB-2000 and already have some of it on the one I currently own and have competed with. I’m curious if anyone has further explored finding a solution to truly short stroke it. The only thing close to this that I think I’ve seen on here is someone asked about doubling up on the recoil buffers, but I dont think they got an answer. Examples out there for 9mm AR platforms include the JP and Taccom short stroke systems.

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@njlarsen

I don’t believe that ‘shortening’ the travel of the buffer spring will be your answer and frankly, would lead in misfiring. Then you will be doing a lot of testing on many types of ammunition to find out which works best, and then there are accuracy descrepencies among many manufacturers! If you have extra money and wish to test a theory it could be advantageous to achieving your competition needs. Spring shortening is not a new gunsmith operation and I have succeeded with a 22 build of mine. Happy and ‘safe’ shooting!!!

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If you short stroke it, you will loose the ability to hold the bolt open. You would need to find a much heavier recoil spring that would probably get you the same results. Issues I see would be hammer/sear reset, as the bolt needs to go pretty far back to do that plus strip another round. Gbb rifles are a different animal then di and pistols. But this is just my .02 cents worth of info.

I know my cz scorpion has a spacer on the recoil spring to shorten the bolt stroke but the bolt is the size of a wallet and stupid heavy. Compared to the s2k foot long bolt assembly and not that heavy.

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That’s why I like the Taccom approach, it’s cheap and effective. It adds a wave spring to the recoil system, and it smooths out the recoil impulse and the gun is flat while shooting fast.

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No need to hold the bolt open in USPSA.

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@njlarsen

The ‘approach’ appears to be initially inexpensive, however, having to adjust to different ammunition would be the added cost factor? I am not saying that the system isn’t right for you… I personally like to look at all the variables. I have put all kinds of money into different firearms and for different reasons. Firearms are definitely an expensive and fun hobby that one NEVER recoups costs? There are more than enough opinions in the world to help spend your hard earned dollar and the internet being one of them? How is their guarantee and return policies? Shipping alone eats up one’s refund fast! See? Either I ‘think’ too much or have too much fun with this sport! So, why not just do a ‘subtle’ change and report on results before you spend any of my money as well??? :grin: You are getting me overly excited just thinking about it! :thinking::+1:

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I like the avenue of a wave spring. Would just need to figure out a good way to mitigate it interfering/getting caught with the main recoil spring. I tend to run slightly hotter power factor ammo than many in PCC, so that should mitigate the worries of the bolt not travelling enough for reliable function. In the end, if there was a two spring system to really cushion the bolt as it travels back, that would be pretty dang sweet in a SUB-2000.

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@njlarsen

I totally agree on ‘sweetness!!!’ I am in the process of building another 80% 10/22 custom and I have been toying with ‘my own’ version of a double recoil spring for complete smoothness. I believe that Tactical Solutions offer a ‘expensive’ version and the manipulation using a paper clip to ‘hold’ the springs in order for the bolt removal seems extensive… Sometimes these procedures find themselves a necessary evil for greatness? I am not giving up hope for ‘greatness,’ nor either should you! Right on!!! I believe self ingenuity is the greatest achievement!

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Yes, I foresee some experimenting in my future.

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@njlarsen

After reading everything, I know understand you are asking which of us have tuned our subs for rapid follow-up shots. A short stroke is a failure; the stroke is too short to grab a round.

Available bits include heavy brass bolt thing, recoiless charging handle, and muzzle brake. I haven’t seen anyone start playing with spring rates.

But … short stroke equals no bang bang.

Let us know if you find or recruit a recoil spring supplier.

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It is. But since these new recoil systems have gained popularity the last few years in competitive shooting, there’s not really another name for them. So Taccom, JP, and other manufacturers all list them as “Short Stroke” kits. So, that’s what they are. I have one of them in my AR PCCs and they do a great job.

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for custom springs contact these guys , www.leespring.com
they can do just about anything you ask…

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