M*CARBO Brotherhood

Best 9mm Ammo For S2k?


#166

Hey guys sorry to be late to the party but I have a lot to catch up on. But I do want to address a few comments:

  1. Syntech ammo is poly coated because it is a soft lead bullets. It was made specifically for shooting steel plates without ricochet.

  2. While there is an expansion craze going on these days with 9mm and guys are jumping on the large bullets folks are forgetting the importance of penetration. There is a reason for the 115 grain bullet being the standard for so long. A school board presidents life was saved because the shooters 9mm with 147gr HP bullets could not penetrate a loose leaf binder…edge wise!

:grin::+1:


#167

@S2K good luck with the aluminum. That stuff barely ran in anything I tried it on.


#168

Oh man… i might be in trouble
I will see if my Sig 365 can run it first


#169

@S2k I just gained a whole new level of respect for you. My EDC is a P365. I love it more than sliced bread. For range time I use CCI/Blazer by the bulk. But for carrying I use the expensive Sig 365 ammo. If you have seen any gel test videos, it makes a 9MM do as much or more than 45ACP. :+1:
What I have not tried yet is to see what the expensive Sig 365 ammo will do to gel block coming our of a S2K.
Has anyone in the brotherhood tried this? Any insight to share? I was considering to put my car carry magazine with this but don’t know if it is any better or should I just fall back to default and buy HST?


#170

J7st betting, but … I’d expect the 365 to use a fast burning powder to make speed in a short barrel. By comparison, the Sub 2000 has an XXLong barrel which would advantage a much slower powder for best velocity.

If you send me 6 rounds, I’ll fire 3 from my 938 and 3 from my Sub 2k to give you the energy and velocity comparison data. I feed my 9s HST and Gold Dots so I haven’t tried the 365 stuff.

I will say Sig ammo is performing very well in the calibers I’ve tried.


#171

@Dred I would be happy to. Do you have a chronograph? Also trying to figure how I would ship them. I know USPS will not allow shipping Ammo if you are not a FFL. I just picked up my 2,000 .22WMR loads from a UPS store and had a detailed discussion with him that he will not ship ammo. Each franchise (at least in IL.) needs a FFL to ship ammo. He shared a story how a Vet shipped his side arm disassembled but there were 5 loose rounds in the bottom of the case he didn’t catch, (clerk was also a Vet BTY) he was fined $800, for that $32 shipment. Big loss for him. Have you personally ever sent ammo? If so how as not to have ATF knock on your door?


#172

@Gatekeeper I wouldn’t send the ammo. While it was a kind offer on Brians part you are correct that there are issues in sending ammunition through the mail (it is also a federal offense!)

Would be easier to send the chrono to you…or just buy one. :grin:

Trust me the more you get involved with this sport sooner or later you will get one. (And a shot timer, good calipers, digital scale, trigger guage, reloading press…lol)


#173

@Johnksg I have found that out. This leads to that and the other. My range bag gets bigger. My holster drawyer gets more and more full. One bore laser becomes many of different calibers. One ammo can leads to three…


#174

@Gatekeeper , done plenty of receiving, but I’ve never shipped ammo. What I’ll do is keep my eyes open for the 365 ammo 'cause I’m curious now.

And, yes to the chronos (plural) question. I’ve got an Oehler 35P
that hasn’t seen light since my Labradar came home.


#175

@Dred oops I said Brian when I meant you Milt! Sorry for the confusion.:astonished:


#176

Yes I would like to see Chrono of the Sig 365 9MM ammo from a S2K if anyone could accommodate that. I would be grateful. All of the charts I have seen are with a 3.1" barrel.
From the Sig website; “Muzzle velocity for both 9mm SIG 365 115gr V-Crown and FMJ loads is 1,050 fps from the P365 3.1-inch barrel with muzzle energy of 282 ft-lbs.”
The Gel test videos show cavitation similar to .45ACP. Very impressive!


#177

I guess you need to get back going and up to speed :smiling_face_with_three_hearts:

Hope you are not out of likes yet. Ill rent you some if you need them !!!


#178

@Turmeric1 oh I do need them! :grin::+1:


#179

@Gatekeeper

I nab’d a box of the 365 ammo today. Thank the gun counter guy at Academy 'cause I didn’t find’m. I was looking for a box that used the same color scheme as the rest of Sig’s ammo - gotta wonder why they’d package these in a completely different box.

At any rate: Sig claims 1050 ft/sec at the muzzle from a 3.1 in barrel. I didn’t realize the 365 had more barrel than the 938, but I can’t imagine the tenth of an inch impacting results. I do expect the 16" Carbine barrel to launch it faster than the projectiles design spec, but we will see.

Good chance I’ll be able to to run it across the Labradar in my 938 and Sub 2000 tomorrow. I think I’ll launch a few from my M&P and possibly a 1911 as well. I’m going to run a factory loaded baseline, but unfortunately I believe all my JHPs are 124s and 147s.


#180

@Dred Thank you for testing the 365 ammo. I am truly interested in the performance of it from a S2K rather than the well documented P365. I wonder if rather than expanding, it will fragment.
***Which brings me to one other set of ammo which is actually designed to “fragment”, actually it blades off. After the blades sheer off cutting at (4) 45 degree angled channels, the percussive portion is a flat disk that very effectively transfers the remaining energy to the target with 12-14" of penetration. Creates a TREMENDOUS wound cavity. I have confirmed through Sig that this is acceptable for the P365. I am confident it is good for a S2K because the gel test I saw on Freedom Fighters was out of a Ruger PC Carbine.
Cutting Edge Bullets 9MM PHD (Personal Home Defense)
https://cuttingedgebullets.com/9mm-phd-personal-home-defense-ammo
Here is a video: (Start at :45 into the video. The beginning is just braggart hunting footage.)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JxE_s9AyHKg
All of the videos are just on bare gel. I wonder how it would perform through 4 layers of denim.
Or 2 tee shirts, a layer of denim and a layer of leather jacket.
Tell me what you think.
If any of you out there have the capability to test and video this, I am willing to pay ($16) for half of the expensive $33 box of 20 rounds to see this test information. (.40 or 9MM)


#181

Check Academy.com. I bought local but my receipt shows $14.99 for 20 rounds. I pulled everything together and will be heading out soon. I should have some velocity data this afternoon.


#182

@kona glad to see they released it…last year I tried their action pistol 150gr syntech in the sub and it would not cycle at all…when I called them they said to wait as they were working on releasing a version of syntech for pcc…now to find some …


#183

@Gatekeeper

I’m going to give the data dump I get when I play with the Labradar. First, I will give my general speculation regarding what the Sig 365 ammo is about.

Based on performance from my Sig 938 (barrel .1 inch shorter than 365 barrel), I am guessing that the Sig 365 JHP ammo is delivered with a projectile designed to perform best when it hits between 1000 feet per second and 1100 feet per second. Average velocity out of my 938 was 1075 at the muzzle and it tended to carry at least 1000 fps through the 50 yards I tested. Barrel length’s impact on velocity (see two 5" barrel and Sub2k barrel results linked below) suggested powder is loaded like any other defensive load so I infer that the projectile is tuned to perform at the lower velocities achieved in the shorter barrels. Note: with the fancy box, it could just be purely marketing and I’d call on Paul Harrel to show me what it does to his “Meat” targets if Sig won’t just give us their design specs.

You will see data for 115gr Blazer Brass as well as the 115gr Sig 365. I picked the Blazer Brass 'cause it was the only 115gr 9mm in my stash. It is round nose plinking ammo, but the Energy and Velocity numbers were valuable as I considered the data.

Entirely unrelated, but interesting to this 1911 fanboy … the 365 ammo hits harder when launched from my STI Spartan than it does when launched from my M&P Pistol - both have 5" barrels. If I hadn’t shot all 20 rounds (20 round boxes suck) I’d be carrying my RIA 5" 1911 out to see if it’s barrel or platform causing this difference; as it is, I will probably repeat the experiment with 147gr Gold Dots launched from the 938, M&P, STI and RIA just to satisfy this new curiosity.

Dumped Data is Here:

938 365

Sub 2000 365

M&P 365

1911 365

938 Blazer

Sub 2000 Blazer

M&P Blazer

With a bit of luck, I got that right the first time. I did not format the spreadsheets, but they are pretty easy to follow. Everything is as expected but the Ke values are available for Muzzle (0), 10, 20, 30, 40 and 50 yards 'cause that’s how I set up the Labradar for this test. I do have some previous defensive ammo results I tried to post months ago, but I failed miserable and never got 'round to reposting. If anyone that read this far is interested, it’s as easy as posting the links to the data stored in this format, so ask if you’re curious.


#184

@Dred THANK YOU!!! Much Appreciated. Interesting that the rated 1050FPS jumps to 1346FPS out of the S2K. I wouldn’t expect nearly 300FPS increase. Very nice to know… I just may make that the carry that I keep in the mag.


#185

@Gatekeeper

Before I did that, I’d either get Sig to release terminal performance info at that speed, test it myself or find someone that has tested the projectile performance at that velocity.

expanding bullets perform at the speeds they are designed for but are unpredictable at higher or slower speeds. A hollow point that expands perfectly at 1000 fps can dissentigrate at 1300 fps.

I think you said you’ve seen gel tests from a carbine, so if the wound channel meets your expecration, go for it. Hopefully your test included barrier performance.